USBS: What is a 'Benedict Arnold'?

You are listening to a bonus episode and this isn't your typical one nation under crime, but we're not really typical. No, no. We are calling these episodes, us BS, where we discuss the historical BS of the U S we're going to cover historical topics in the U S that are interesting, or that I find during my research for Owen, UC, that we don't have time to discuss, or it could be things that you send us that you want us to cover it, that you want our opinions and topics on. We know that you always want that. And that's what we're doing here. 

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00:00:43

There you go. You're welcome. So as a bit of a holiday treat for you all, if you listened to the end of our episode this week, then you know, what's happening. We are going to have a bonus episode of USBs every week from now until the end of the year, Merry Christmas, happy Hanukkah, happy new year. And then after that, well, did I forget anything? Nothing just say happy holidays. That that gets all of them happy, happy. So after that, these episodes are going to move over to our Patrion where you can go and subscribe and you can get the first ones that come out there too. 

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00:01:27

So I'm Kayla and I'm Leah, and let's get into it. If you saw the title of our bonus episode this week, you might be thinking, Hmm, interesting. But it is our sources for this week are history.com and constitution center.org. And as I said, when you saw the topic, you were thinking weird. So where did the term Benedict Arnold come from? Other than being an actual person? Why do we associate the name with someone who is a trader and Alana, Alana, Alana. 

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00:02:13

How did one man's name become an idiom hundreds of years later? And it's still used every day. Benedict Arnold was born January 14th, 1741 in Norwalk, Connecticut. He was one of several Benedict Arnold in his family, both his father and his great grandfather shared the same name. His great grandfather was a governor of Rhode Island and Arnold's mom. Hannah Waterman king came from a family that was quote a descendant of the Rhode Island equivalent of royalty. 

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00:02:53

His father had been one of the colony founders and he might've been suave to sag his mother, but he was described as a drunk and he ruined the family by squandering away the wealth they were given due to bad business deals. Dear Arnold attended school for a little bit of time at Canterbury. And while he attended two of his sisters and one of his brothers died from yellow fever. He was removed from school because the family couldn't afford for him to go anymore. And because of this young Bennett, it was a bit of a troublemaker and his mom could no longer control him. 

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00:03:37

But thankfully for her, her nephews, Daniel and Joshua Lathrop took in young Benedict as an apprentice and their large apothecary business. Arnold did leave his apprenticeship a couple of times because he was a member of the militia during the French and Indian war, which for those of you who aren't keeping up with the dates and I don't blame you means he was anywhere between the ages of 13 and 23. When he fought in the French and Indian war in 1759 Arnold's mother died, and his father died only two years later, Arnold had had dreams of opening his own apothecary. So he traveled to Europe. 

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00:04:20

He then purchased the supplies and equipment he needed before establishing his shop in new Haven, Connecticut. There was only one other surviving member of the Arnold family other than Benedict himself. And it was his sister, Hannah, naturally. He hired her as his assistant to keep an eye on her and to support her. However, he could be a big brother, right? But Arnold shop wasn't necessarily on the up and up. Unfortunately he started smuggling and having shady business dealings sounds bit like his dad. And of course, all of this was in contempt with the customs and laws of the crown. 

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00:05:03

Oh, dear Cupid struck Arnold in 1767. And he married a woman named Margaret Mansfield together. The couple had three sons, not too many yet threes. They still outnumber you. But anyways, most of us know about the revolutionary war, but for those of you who don't know, who might not have learned the revolutionary war, we got a lot of listeners in other countries. So if you aren't aware of what the revolutionary war is, I'll give you a very brief overview of what happened and kind of how everything led to it, because it does take place. Like the reason that Benedict Arnold is a term used today is because of the events that happened during the revolutionary war. 

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00:05:50

So the revolutionary war, which is also known as the American war for independence or the American revolution began in 1765 and officially ended in 1783. It was a war between the original 13 American colonies and great Britain. The colonies were fed up with laws and taxes being placed on them without any colonial representation by the British monarchy and parliament taxation, without representation. Some of the most notable events that contributed to growing tensions in the colonies were the stand back of 1765, which they tried to make all printed documents have to carry a stamp on them. 

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00:06:35

It's just weird. Then there was the Boston massacre, the tea act of 1773, which was a tax on tea to financially assist the struggling British east India company. I told you all that would come back and you might remember this one because of the Boston tea party, while all of these were acts of rebellion and not technically war the war came officially on April 19th, 1775 due to the battles of Lexington and Concord. This is where the shot heard round the world occurred. And for those of you who aren't really familiar with that, the shot heard round the world is essentially what started the entire revolutionary war. 

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00:07:21

The British say that the American city at the Americans say that the British did it. The world may never know, but it was the first shy. Somebody just screwed up. I was like, oh yeah. Was that me? I think somebody who was like cleaning is gone or something. I was like, Ooh, Ooh, no. Eventually the French joined the American colonies in war. And then the colonies were able to defeat the British, which achieved independence from great Britain and officially established the United States of America. The world turned upside down. Yes. Before the revolutionary war broke out, Arnold had become a captain in the governor's second company of guards. 

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00:08:06

It was when new spread of the battles of Lexington and Concord that Arnold requested permission from the Massachusetts committee of safety to capture Fort Ticonderoga. He partnered with Ethan Allen, no relation to Ethan Allen, which is furniture store that we know today. And Allen's group known as the green mountain boys to capture the first British Garrison at Fort Ticonderoga in upstate New York on May 10th, 1775. Arnold was enraged when the green mountain boys invaded the Garrison stash of rum and proceeded to get completely drunk. The men ignored Arnold's commands completely. 

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00:08:48

And not only did they just ignore him, they only referred to him if they were poking fun at him as a major general, Arnold went on to serve with honor at the battles of Quebec and Saratoga. During this time in June of 1775 Arnold's wife died. He started to become known as a bit of a hot head and frequently fought with other officers and Congress as a whole. Hm, George Washington understood Arnold's anger issues as a general, but he also valued his tactfulness on the battlefield bit more than his attitude. We've heard that before George Washington proposed to the continental Congress, that Benedict Arnold should participate in the campaign to invade Canada under the command of general. 

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00:09:39

Phillip Schuyler, we know him Arnold and his men left Cambridge for the attack on Quebec. In September of 1775, they were marching north through rough wilderness and winter was quickly approaching Arnold, drafted a letter to John Dyer, mayor Sierre and acquaintance in Quebec, hoping to gain useful intelligence before he and Skyler arrived to take the city. The letter was given to natives in the OB Inaki tribe to pass on to John Hall, to give to mercy air. What they didn't know was that John Hall was a French speaking, British desert or who they really shouldn't have been getting that letter to retro raggy. 

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00:10:30

So instead the letter fell into the hands of the British, who now alerted to the impending assault four to five, the city's defenses on December 31st, 1775, the battle of Quebec and sued, but things went very poorly for the Americans. Well, especially for general, Montgomery caught a bullet in the neck. Yep. He sure did. Arnold was severely injured. Despite his heroic service Arnold felt he did not receive the recognition he deserved. We also heard that out of Aaron Burr, he resigned from the continental army in 1777. After Congress promoted five junior officers above him, Washington begged him to reconsider after everything he had contributed to the war effort and Arnold rejoined the army in time to participate in the defense of central New York from an invading British force under general John Bitcoin in the battles against Bitcoin, Arnold served under general Hiroshi O gates, such an interesting name, who is an officer that Arnold is the same Horatio. 

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00:11:45

Yeah. Finish you. I'm sorry. It's a bit from the indie show. I'm sorry. You don't, you don't care. We laugh. This is an officer who Arnold came to hold in contempt and the feelings were quite mutual and gates at one point relieved Arnold of his command just by nonetheless at the battle of Beamis Heights. On October 7th, 1777, Arnold defied gates authority and took command of a group of American soldiers whom he led in an assault against the British line Arnold's is hacked through the enemy into disarray and contributed greatly to the American victory 10 days later, but going surrendered his entire army at Saratoga news of the surrender convinced France to enter the war on the side of the Americans. 

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00:12:47

Surely he got recognition there. Once again, Arnold had brought his country a step closer to independence, however, oh, gates downplayed Arnold's contributions in his official reports and claimed most of the credit for him self. Oh, we've heard that before too. Also during all of this Arnold received an injury at Saratoga and it was the same leg. He injured in Quebec. He was temporary and capable of a field command and he accepted the position of military governor of Philadelphia in 1778. 

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00:13:30

It was there that his loyalties began to change during his term as governor rumors, not entirely unfounded, circulated through Philadelphia, accusing Arnold of abusing his position for personal profit questions were also raised about Arnold's courtship and marriage to the young Peggy Shippen, who was 19 years. His junior Peggy was the daughter of a man suspected of loyalists sympathies. How old was he at this time? Even though it was 19 years, his junior, how old was he? Like he was like in his forties. 

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00:14:11

That's not correct. However, okay. I'm just saying 19 years, his junior isn't as bad as like she was 19 and he was like 55. Okay. So, but yes, that, and then she has, the father was suspected as a loyalist and he married her. So now do our listeners all understand what a loyalist is? I'm sure, but we'll go through it. So a loyalist was essentially someone who just remained loyal to the British crown. They were not fighting in the American revolution. 

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00:14:53

And if they were, they were fighting for the side of the British and then Patriots are the Americans who were fighting for independence on the other side. So Peggy, her dad was a loyalist who was loyal to the British crown while Benedict Arnold was a general as a Patriot and the revolutionary war. So you can see how that could make things a little bit uncomfortable at dinner with daddy and law, Arnold and Peggy lived a lavish lifestyle in Philadelphia, accumulating substantial debt with their five children. Now bringing him to eight total, too many now, yes, too many, the debt and the resentment Arnold fell over not being promoted faster. 

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00:15:39

We're motivating factors in his choice to become a turncoat. And turncoat was just a term during that time. That essentially meant like you, you were a turncoat, you were on the Patriot side, which had blue coats and you were a turncoat. And you went to the British side who had red coats hints. One of the famous things, the right coats are coming. So you changed your coat color. He, he concluded that his interests would be better served, assisting the British, then continuing to suffer for an American army. He saw as grateful when Arnold was essentially encouraged slash force and to rejoin the war. 

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00:16:23

Washington wanted him to come back as a top commander, but instead Arnold requested command of the Hudson valley region. And the facility of west point told you I'd come back. This is when Arnold crossed paths with British major. John Andre, Andre was a top aid to British commanders, sir, Henry Clinton. He also led the British spy network, but you were introduced and they began corresponding with one another using coded letters. Arnold would arrange for the British to easily take over west point, which was now under Arnold's command. 

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00:17:04

And the price for this was 20,000 pounds and a spot for Arnold in the British military command. Pretty sweet for him. The British thought taking over west point would give them complete military control over the Hudson valley. This is when things took a turn. Andre was headed back to meet with the British and give them plans of the takeover. But the ship he was traveling on was forced away by American gunfire, Andre disembarked the ship and had to walk back to British lines, disguised as a civilian and Andre thought he was traveling through an area that the British were in control of, but that's what he got for thinking three American soldiers confronted him and he found out he was very wrong. 

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00:17:58

The American soldiers searched Andre and quickly found all of the information for the plot. And it also incriminated Arnold and treason. Oh, that is really bad. And for those who aren't aware of what treason is, basically, you were helping the other side in war. Like you are, you were being used as a crime against your company company, country. Yes. It is a crime against your country for giving information related, just related to something in that respect. So a lot of people who are spies, a lot of times they're charged with treason. 

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00:18:40

So within a month of the two meeting, Andre was executed under order from George Washington for espionage off of his head. As for Arnold, he fled to the British side, hoping for asylum, but he wasn't necessarily welcomed there either. Arnold soon became one of the most reviled figures in us history. Yeah, weirdly enough, his treason became his final service to the American revolution. Americans had grown frustrated with the slow progress towards independence, and there are numerous battlefield defeats. 

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00:19:26

However word of Arnold's treason against them reenergize. The Patriots falling morale. Arnold did achieve the British commands that he was looking for. And he led attacks in Virginia and Connecticut. But the revolutionary war officially ended with the signing of the treaty of Paris in 1783, Arnold fled to England after the war was over. He then died in London on June 14th, 1801 at age 61, Massachusetts paper noted his passing with one line. 

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00:20:06

Oh no. In England Brigadier general Benedict Arnold notorious throughout the world. The British regarded him with ambivalence while his former countrymen despised him. And back in 1781, Benjamin Franklin wrote to Markita Lafayette about Arnold's treason after American agent seized a letter that said Arnold only received 5,000 pounds, not what he was expecting from the 20,000 or his apps. Franklin compared Arnold to Judas OMA and said it was quote, a miserable bargain, especially when one considers the quantity of infamy. 

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00:20:56

He has acquired to himself and entailed on his family. I was going to ask about what I don't know. I mean, I knew I'd been at, at Darnold while we use that. What about his family? Do you have a follow up on his family? Like a little bit. Okay, good. Following his death. Arnold's memory lived on in the land of his birth where his name became synonymous with the word trader in popular culture. Now the words Benedict Arnold became synonymous with treason or becoming a trader. And at west point Arnold's name was erased from a series of monuments that honor the generals of the revolutionary. 

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00:21:45

So now, you know, the Genesis of the term Benedict Arnold, his family did continue from everything that I saw. Arnold was kind of a common, last name at the time. So it wasn't too difficult for some to kind of like scoot under the radar. But like, did they stay in the U S I couldn't find whether they left with him or not. I would imagine they would if they were still alive, because, and because they were like, it was such an established family, like, like his, like his extended family, especially, but you know, a lot of his family at the time, from what I read were lumped together with loyalists. 

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00:22:33

So I do know that a lot of them had a really tough time after the war was over with that. Now whether his actual family left and went with him, isn't really known, but he did die in 1801. And he was 60 in England. Yes. He died in England. He never came back to the United States. I mean, well, and then the other thing that happened is that a lot of the British Command blamed Arnold for Andre's death. Well, yeah. And they said like, you know, basically you killed him. 

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00:23:14

Which, I mean, I mean, it's not his fault that he has. Yeah. I didn't mean to be fair. He really didn't, you know, do that. Andre's the one that got caught. Right. If you're a spot, that's the risk that you take. Right. So, I mean, sorry. Yeah, I don't get it. But then, then on the same hand, it's like, did you really expect that you were going to be an American soldier, then just go over to the British side and everything was going to be fine. Everybody's going to just welcome you with open arms, no suspicion at all. None like that. That's, what's so weird to me. 

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00:23:55

And you were like, you fought directly under George Washington. You were a really high up dude. Like, what did you think was gonna happen here? But I mean, he did continue and he was in British command and he took a tax on Virginia and Connecticut. So, I mean, he at least had some little bit of a notoriety in that sense, I guess, but I mean, his name was mud. Yeah. Which is awesome. Which has a backstory to that. I can't remember us, but it does. 

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00:24:38

It has a similar story to it does. It does. It was cause his last, the last name of the guy was mud. Right. And he had written some letters or something like that. It was very similar to that. But yes, it's very interesting. And now, you know, a lot of times you'll hear in pop culture references, you'll hear that someone is a Benedict Arnold and yeah. That's where it all comes from today, which is very, very interesting sometimes to hear where things come from. Like we figured out what limelight comes from, like someone being in the limelight. And if you don't know now, you know, and what else we've figured out so far, we did, we did discuss the mad Hatter, what that comes from and a lot of different things like that. 

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00:25:26

So it's kind of interesting to see where these little things, the term hooker. Yeah. The term hooker figured out where that came from. Just a lot of different things that we learned and kind of already knew on the show, Matt hotter and hooker. Well, our listeners might not have that's right. I enjoy little quirky facts like that. Yeah. So it is fun. And you know, I'm sure a lot of people, because like they said that he was still kind of revered on for the British is like helping them in the war. So I'm sure they didn't win yet. Right. But I'm sure some people still like in Britain, they appreciated him at his neck. Yeah. They like thought, oh, he's not that, you know, like he's not a bad guy. 

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00:26:08

So it's kind of funny because also another thing that I was thinking when I was writing this is because we do have some listeners that are in the UK and I mean, y'all, I'm half Scottish. I'm just saying, so half Scottish, what I found funny is that like, you know, sometimes, especially in the U S so this is kind of just an example that, that I noticed. So in the us, we kind of have like, some regions will have some history information there in some regions more. It just kinda depends on like what region you're in. Like, yes, we have us history, but it really kind of depends on what us history is there. 

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00:26:52

Like if you're reading textbooks say from the north, they could be slightly different on the civil war than what ones in the south would be. And they've shown that like, side-by-side comparisons that they are slightly different. And so I wonder, like if you're a student in the UK, like, what did you learn about the revolutionary war? Well, and I think some things I know that's things are covered more in depth. I mean, you know, mom, you know, mother's from Scotland. Things are covered more in depth here. One number one, you know, in the U S we have a whole year that is devoted to us history as we're the, in the us, you know, and in fourth grade here in Alabama, we have Alabama history. 

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00:27:45

We don't have Texas history right. In Alabama. So me, you know, it's going to be regional. So, I mean, so there's going to be different things that are taught. It's not going to be as in depth, just because that's our country. And, you know, you want, you need to learn your country's origin. So it's not going to be as in depth. But I wonder just from a different perspective, not even really in depth of that perspective. I wonder if, when they learn about the revolutionary war, if, I mean, I wonder under what lens they're teaching it. Sure. Does that make sense? 

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00:28:25

Do they paint? How do they paint Americans? But just like in wicked, I love when the wizard sings wonderful. You know, where I come from, we tell all kinds of laws, we call it history, right. You know, a man calls a, a, man's called a trader or elaborator, a rich man's a thief or philanthropists. I do know. It's always just curious to me as to what there's, there's three sides to every story, your version, my version, and the truth. Right. You know, and that's just how it is. And I mean, there can be three people that see the exact, or we even talked about this. 

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00:29:08

There can be three people and an entire congregation that hears the same sermon, the exact same sermon. And each person's going to say something different out of it. But I wonder, so in Hamilton, one of the things at the very, very, very, very end after Hamilton is shot and killed in the musical. That was when Berger said, so now I'm like the villain in your history. Like basically no one, no butter, no going to talk about, right. No, one's going to talk about my side. They're only going to remember that I'm the villain in your history. We all know burger shop first. 

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00:29:50

It, anyways, I don't, I just don't start. I don't care what you say first shot first. I'm just saying the fact that when Hamilton handed him the gun, he said, be careful. It's loaded, really like really anyways. But, you know, I just, I wonder a lot of things like that, of how, how things are interesting are told. So if you are from the UK and you do know how y'all were the glimpse. Yeah. Let me know how we're seriously curious. We're not like, no, like I really don't know for us, you know? I mean, yeah. I mean, we, we are patriotic and we are Americans, you know, you're Scottish, I'm half Scottish. 

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00:30:36

I am curious to see how, how it is represented and in France, you know, how, how has your part portrayed? I mean, cause you know, you got stepped in, you know, Lafayette, but then I wonder because then how are we portrayed after we didn't come? And that's what I was about to say. I know there were some, there was some bad blood for a while. That's what I want. That's what I was about to say too, is I wonder, because I'm sure during the revolution there might be in France, there might be positive things about the American revolution and their contributions. Like I'm sure it's very heavy on their contributions to it, but I'm sure that when it came to the French revolution, they were like, then they just abandoned and then there were no Americans. 

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00:31:20

Yeah. So I, but I truly do wonder because I think that, I think somehow I just wonder how the, because you know, in Britain, like in British history books or in the UK, if they have kind of similar ways that, that we have things, you know, it's not the same way that we say it like it, and this is absolutely no offense to anyone in great Britain, but I'm sure it comes across as that. The colonies were ungrateful. You know what I mean? Like it like it because you're not going to see something there that is in favor of the American revolution per se. 

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00:32:03

You might, it's not going to be painted in such a glorious light as it is here. Well, and, and I don't know necessarily glorious light, but I mean, I think now that we are so far removed from it, I think that it could be very factually laid out with, with no passion to it just laid out, you know, this was happening, this was happening. So this happened, I also wonder how, how, so those countries obviously have been around a couple of years, centuries before ours. 

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00:32:45

So like for us, that's a big part of our history. Like the American history, like literally we have a class and most of it is just revolutionary era. So I wonder if like, for them, like the American revolution is just like a little blip on their radar and then they just move on. Oh yeah. It is. I mean, cause I've told you, I think we've said it on the podcast. Like when I went up into Scotland, you know, we'll be in a castle and I remember vividly, oh yeah, yeah. One of the towers, you know, I looked at the steps and it was stone steps. We were in a castle, the stone steps, you know, I looked at them and the center of the steps were worn. 

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00:33:28

And I was like that, those stairs older than our country, which N I've said before that some people on that listened to our podcast might also listen to, and that's why we drink and M on the show, they say that every time they do a story on anything, that's like pre because M was a tour guide in say Getty's Burg or Richmond. They were a tour guide there for a long time. That will be cool. 

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00:34:08

And so anytime they do a story on anything that's before, like the 1760s, they're like, my mind cannot comprehend that there is something like older than that. Yeah. Because that was pretty sick and old because they covered an episode once and they were like, it took place in 500. I was like, oh my God. Like, cause to us, like our history technically for American history starts 1776. 

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00:34:49

Like it's, it's crazy. But yeah. So I just, I wonder if, let us know guys, I'm curious, I'm very curious as to, as to how we all learn and have family over there, I could ask them in a lot of different countries. Like I just wonder kind of how things, cause we take world history. There is one year that we do oral history class and we learn about like the main dynasties and we learn about a lot of different things. We do learn about the French revolution. You know, we learn about the monarchy. We learn about a lot of things, which I'm sure some people might be surprised that we do learn those things. Like we know about king Henry. Like we know about a lot. We know about Napoleon Bonaparte day. 

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00:35:30

We know a lot about history. We know a lot about the Spanish. Conquistadores like we do study stuff. It sticks with some of us, but it doesn't stick with others. Right. But we only study it for one scribe. And then after that, it's kind of all American history. And we like each grade is kind of like a separate piece of, and so until like the way that our school system goes is it's kind of a, a different after you cover, you know, Alabama history, then you cover world history, then you get to like us history. And then kind of after that, it's like specific areas of history. 

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00:36:11

And then your last year is like economics and government and government is your very last year kind of that rounds out history. And so it's just very interesting just to kind of see how different people, what different countries takes art like in North Korea. I'm sure there is nothing about like, and not to say anything negative, but just knowing like how censored a lot of things are there. I'm sure there is nothing about the American revolution because in North Korea they don't want people to get ideas about revolution. Right. I mean, it's, it really is interesting. 

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00:36:52

It's, it's very interesting. And I just wonder just, I always like to know how things are perceived in different because you and I have votes in it. Right. You and I are both people that like we can be presented in argument, but also be able to see someone else's perspective. Yes. And like, to a point of not just see that person's perspective, but like understand where they're coming from them. Wait, we will have discussions with each other and you will like, just this past week we were having a discussion and you were telling me your points, your points, your points. 

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00:37:36

And then, you know, I came back with counter points and I agreed with yours and I came back with counterpoints and I'm not look, I'm just praying devil's land. And I'm just, you know, come back with the other points. I can see this other side. And I mean, that's just what we do. Yeah. And try to be open-minded and just, you know, could this be a, like we are, and we've discussed it before we are not a politics podcast. We don't like to talk about politics or money. We that's just, those are just things that we stay out of. But even as far as politics goes, I mean, we are not unknowing of the other side of whatever our beliefs are, their perspective. 

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00:38:19

Like we're not blind. Now. There are a lot of people who are there and I will say it, this is the only political thing that I will say about things is you need to be loyal to policy, not party. I will agree with that. You need to be, because I think, you know, not, not to get into it, but I think a lot of people are very caught up on party rather than the policies, rather than the policies that they're actually voting for. And that is on all sides. That is not just a specific side that is on all sides. And we do have a two party system thanks, 1824. 

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00:39:01

But you know, we do have a two party system and it wasn't designed to be that way. It wasn't ever designed to be that until things changed and you know, which is funny because a lot of people from other countries will kind of like see the U S and they're like, it's funny to them because they're like, they don't understand, you know, especially places where the queen, I mean, like you have the crown, like, that's just how things go. And here we do have a democracy, but it's, and it goes all the way back to when the king said, you know, are you going to replace every time someone's in charge? 

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00:39:48

Like how, you know, how does that happen? And it is true because if you pay attention to anything political in the United States, if there is a new president, it takes about two years for really their policies to come forward. Because, and it's, again, it's not to say any side those two years, it's like that president is undoing things that he didn't like that the previous president. Right. And then it's like, you finally get to year three and those policies are coming into place, then reelection occurs. And so it's like, then they switched gears again. So it, it, I mean, it is very true. 

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00:40:28

And it's just like in, in Hamilton he says, oh, are they going to keep replacing whoever's in charge? If so, who's next. Yeah. And that was, yeah, that was when John Adams came in after George Washington. And they, no one wanted George Washington to go because that was all they knew. And that's when he was like, I have to leave. I have to teach. Like they say, I have to teach them how to say goodbye, because if I don't do it, then I'm not setting the precedent that we laid out. Right. And so, you know, Lee and I are both in that way of like, we can see the other side, we can see where you're coming from. If you present us with a valid argument, we can see the other side. 

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00:41:09

We may not agree with your side. We might not agree with something. We'll listen to you. If, if you make sense, we'll listen to you. And if you have a, I'll say this all the time, if you, because me and my boyfriend talk about a lot of different things, but I've, I've always said, if you have a valid argument and you come forward to me with a perspective that I have not thought of before you very well could change my mind because I I'm not. So I don't feel as though I'm so like bogged down in things that I can't say, oh, that does make sense. Like, you know, a lot of people have issues over the death penalty. 

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00:41:51

People have accused, you know, that is for those who don't know, we do have the death penalty in the United States, depending on the state that you're in. And a lot of people have a lot of conflicting beliefs about the death penalty. And I mean, there are a lot of convincing arguments for both sides. And so it's just another one of those things. If I was very much, one way for a very long time, and then I was given another perspective and I went, oh, oh, that does make, that makes, that makes sense. Cause it it's, somebody gives you something to think about and that's when you go, oh Hmm. You know, something, my mind should never be changed on going around in caves. 

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00:42:37

I will never know. Never go in caves. I don't understand. I don't understand the, the, the, the, the pool to do that. Why do people go in case people go missing in those? Why, why, why did these crazy to do that? It's dark. Like I jumped down into them. You don't know what's down in there crazy people. Oh gosh, my nephews have done that. People are so funny and you tell them or skydiving new. Just tell me after you've done it. Tell me after you've done it. Don't tell me before now we had a family friend for a long time that had an unfortunate event skydiving and him. 

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00:43:18

No, I won't. I will never skydive after knowing about that. So, well, right. Trail, we've reached the end of our very first bonus episode of USBs. We hope that you enjoyed it. I hope that you kind of liked this kind of a departure from true crime for a little bit, even though I guess treason is still a crime. It's still, we've got that as killing. Right? We've got other things that I do have kind of coming up that we're going to talk about in our next few bonus episodes that are kind of still around this time period. That are very interesting. So we will see how those go. But, you know, as we say, always, you can always find us anywhere that you can find us. 

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00:43:59

Honestly, you can find us, you can, we have our website one nation under chrome.com. You can always reach us kind of anywhere from there, there's links for everything. We're at owing USI pod on Twitter, and then one nation under crime, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, everything is on there, all the things, all the things that are there. And we hope that you enjoyed this kind of this bonus episode. Like I said, eventually we will take that to Patrion. So if you would like more Kayla and Leah, right? And if you would like help with the cost of making the show, you can also go to Patrion and you can sign up to be a Patriot on donor. There, there are different levels and they do have quite fun names. 

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00:44:40

So please go there. And also, like I said before, we're going to do these bonus episodes through the end of the year. And then eventually those will be moving over to Patrion. So we appreciate you tuning in for the inaugural case, the inaugural topic really inaugural episode. Yeah. We appreciate you joining us for the inaugural episode of USBs. Very cleverly named on my part. I will say, I'm not patting myself on the back or anything, but you are so clever and so humble. I know I'm really humble. It's one of my best qualities, if you do say so if I do say so myself, so yeah, we appreciate you tuning into us this week. 

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00:45:26

We will see you again next week with more BS from the U S and I hope that you enjoyed all of it, cause we like it. And we will see you here. And remember even with the BS, there's still still no Liberty and justice for all, even here, even here. So we'll see you. Then I guys.