1817: America's First Public Enemy No. 1

You are listening to one nation under crime, a chronological true crime podcast. Each week we go through our nation's history and discuss one case from each year, starting in 1800. I'm Kayla and I'm Leah and yeah, we're, we're almost to 20. We're almost at 20. It's insane. We're in near 18, 17 this year and it's episode 19. And we are covering this week. Apparently a case that I'm not gonna lie. I've been told there's a couple of reasons. You're not going to like it. Wow. Wow. 

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00:00:40

So we're going to cover the case of America's first public enemy. Number one, eking. This is the other reason why you're not going to like it. Oh, and I know Leah has some friends who listen, so this is not going to give away per se anything about your life. But the people who know you, who are listening will also understand why you will not like it. Oh no. His name is Samuel Green. I have a Samuel in my life who I love and adore. Yeah. It's bad. 

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00:01:20

So that was the other reason I was saying it's pretty brutal, but yeah, his name is Samuel and I was like, we call him Sam, so we will distinguish so, and I call this guy Samuel throughout, so. Okay. Well you don't distinguish that. It's not, it's not my Sam. Yes. So we talked about this before, but we're going to go through it again guys, because we want to give you something and it's completely free to you. We've had two people and if you're out there, guys send me your information. Because if we've had people that have put in reviews for us, they were so nice. They Leah Leah's. 

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00:02:02

And as y'all should know, by now, by episode 19 and an intro, I'm not an emotional person. I am at all. And I got those, I got the little notification from our website that said you have new reviews that have downloaded to the website. And I was like, oh, okay. And so I went to go look at them and guys, they were just so sweet and you're so kind. And Kayla May have squeezed. I don't know I was, Ugh. It was just anyways. It was so nice. And some guys, if that was you send me your information so I can send you a free prize. And those of you who haven't, why haven't you, it takes two minutes out of your day and you're already there. 

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00:02:45

You're already listening to us. So go ahead and give us a five star review and you know, we're awesome. Right? As we've said, leave us a compliment, a funny joke, or just confess your undying love for us Wolf. We take any and all and all of the above and may, and we know it's true already. 

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So just go ahead and get it out there and get your sticker. 

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We do. We do. I mean, and you get a free sticker guys. I'm just saying they're nice stickers. So I, I mean, I would want, I have a lot of them, but I would want one, if I did not have one, so we would greatly appreciate it. If you do leave us a review, please screenshot it and then send it to either our Instagram or Twitter or our email, our emails, probably going to be the best way to do it, which is just one nation under crime@gmail.com. And, you know, just send me a screenshot of your review and send me your address. And I will swiftly put one in the mail for you so that you can be the proud owner of one as well. 

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00:03:44

So, 

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And Kayla does all the hard stuff. I just have to sit here and react. 

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So please go do that for us. And like I said before, guys, the sticker is like dishwasher proof. So if you want to put it on a water bottle, it's fade proof. So if you put it on anything that's like out in sun for a bit like it's fade proof. I think up to five years, I don't know if they're super fancy and you'll love it. 

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00:04:07

Cause we are super fancy by the way. 

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Exactly. So you're just a few clicks away cause you're already here. So go ahead and go do it. And you're done. Send it to me and guys, honestly, apple reviews. That's the best way that our podcast gets noticed. So even though like we, you know, we always tell you recommend us to everyone and always do that. Recommend us to everyone you see, but also those reviews help us get more recognized in the chart space. That's what kind of helps boost podcast is based off of how many ratings they have and how many, you know, five star reviews of the podcast. There are. So all you're doing is helping us. You're helping a small little startup from Alabama. 

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00:04:51

Just become a big breakout girls. I mean, we're pretty great. That's true. 

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00:04:58

We're both delights. 

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It is true. So, you know, we make friends 

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00:05:03

Wherever we go. I mean, Uber in Atlanta, I can think of three people, three pans that we, we really, I mean, we were talking, wait, we made, 

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I always do so God. And that just helps so many things. If we get more recognized by more people, so we would greatly appreciate it. And we love you guys. So it would be great. Second thing for this episode, 

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00:05:29

Very exciting. We need 

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00:05:31

To give a huge shout out and thank you. You can do it all out to our new Patrion subscriber. His name is Ryan, which is funny because we both have Ryan's in our lives and they're both pretty great. So it's, it's pretty funny. We both know people who are named Ryan, which cross it anyways. We have a new subscribers, name's Ryan and he claimed his spot in our hearts. And as our first Iowan Patrion subscriber 

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00:06:06

Lately, Iowa, I mean, 

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00:06:10

Hi, hi, it's insane. How many places we have listeners, we do record these episodes a little bit in advance. So while as of this recording, Ryan became a pastry on a subscriber this week. He sadly won't hear it until let's see the next episode. So sorry, Ryan. We did get it. And we have not forgotten about you. We love you. Yeah. The, this episode, you're pretty neat. This episode will come out on the 20th. So, so yeah, we greatly appreciate Ryan for becoming a Patrion subscriber and you know, guys go on there and become a subscriber yourself. 

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00:06:51

There are benefits per each tier. And just like we've said, the more that you can support our show, the more that we can honestly put more into the show and give more back to you and you can get a drum roll too. You can. And there's a lot of different things that we can do, you know, and there's some that are listed on there. We have a few different little things like behind the scenes stuff that we can post on there for y'all to have access to. So think about it, go do it. Just go to patrion.com and search for one nation under crime. And you can be a super amazing person like Ryan. So, I mean 

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00:07:30

Already are super amazing. Cause you're listening to be acknowledged. 

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You'll get that acknowledgement that you always wanted. 

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00:07:39

Sorry, Kayla. I just needed to make sure it's true. Distinction was made. So you're super amazing, but you get that knowledgement from us, 

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00:07:47

Correct. Okay. And if validation is what you're searching for in your life, much like myself, then you will get it. You will, you will get it. So this week as 

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00:07:59

We discussed, 

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It's brutal. 

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00:08:04

The brutal, not just the it's brutal. 

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00:08:07

This is a medium trigger level warning show. There is. I'm going to go ahead and put here kind of what the overarching themes are of this episode. So you can just kind of be aware there, significant abuse involved. There's some animal cruelty involved. No, yeah. I'm going to go. Obviously I I've been very gentle in what I've put in there, but just in case I'll put little trigger warnings here and there, but with it being sporadic there, isn't going to be a large countdown after I tell you that there's a trigger warning. So if this is an episode that you are listening around the littles and you don't want them to hear those things, maybe wait til a little later. 

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00:08:50

Cause like I said, I'm going to give you trigger warnings just so you know, and I'll probably give you like a couple seconds after that, but because there are so many, I can't really, you know, pause and wait a super long time. So we're going to get into it. I'm going to give it, trust me guys. It's okay. I toned down a lot of the things that are right about it. So she's looking at my face. It's all paper, it's all a she's she's not happy. So the sources for this week, I use really one main source, which is just amazing as Murderpedia say that again. Murderpedia oh, Murderpedia, it's CDF. 

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00:09:31

It's an amazing site guys. And if you, if you're interested in all, in any kind of true crime and you're ever looking for anything, a lot of the times Murderpedia is going to have it. Sometimes they don't with these cases just because, like I said, guys, it's 11, 11 on September 11th right now. Oh, look at that anyways. Sorry. We were talking before we started recording, we were talking about September 11th. We're not going to discuss it in this episode because we can't, we can't y'all have heard us discuss it before in separate episodes. And you know, our feelings you'll know our feelings and we'll all go ahead because weirdly enough, because I mentioned that, I mean, we'll go ahead and say, you know, we it's the 20th anniversary today, Leah and I both had very different experiences and we've discussed it in previous episodes of our experiences of that day and of that time. 

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And if you or someone, you know, and love and is near and dear to you, even if someone you don't love, you know, was one of those that immediately after nine 11, decided to join the armed forces. We appreciate you. If you've had any family members who have been in the military who have served over in Iraq and Afghanistan, we appreciate you and we appreciate your service. We're not, we're not downplaying that at all. Or if they're in the military at all, wherever they have been wherever they've served, we're, you know, we're big supporters, former anything. And, and guys, and I am the first responders. 

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00:11:06

Correct. And I put this on one of our, I think it was for the USS upper VA case. I did put it in our show notes, but even if we've got a lot of international listeners and while yes, our U S troops are near and dear to our heart being an, any kind of military family is difficult in general. And if you are in a different country and you know, regardless of whether you serve for the U S or you serve for your personal country or have family that serves your personal country, that's still a really big sacrifice. And we're not one of those people that like thinks, oh, like we're the best at everything. And we only care, you know, we are humanitarians. We care about everyone and we understand the sacrifices that your family has gone through as well, regardless of, of where you are, where you've been, you know, it's a difficult all around. 

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00:11:59

And a lot of people who have served in other countries have come and they've been stationed in the U S for a little while, and they've lived here with us and, you know, the U S the U S is on good terms with a lot of other countries when it comes to, you know, military alliances and stuff like that. And so 

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00:12:16

Will you promise to even get married to people from those other countries? Much like my father 

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Did. Yeah. So, you know, cause he was on the 

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00:12:24

Half-breed, that's what my mother, 

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00:12:27

Because he was stationed in Scott, was he stationed in Scotland court and Scott while he was stay. She, okay. Yeah. So, you know, we appreciate all military families, first responders, all of you, we appreciate it. We just cannot steeply go into thoughts and feelings on nine 11. We both have very it's hard day for both of us. So, and we're both very empathetic people. So we kind of, the positive and negative of that is we can put ourselves in other people's shoes very easily and we can weirdly enough kind of like feel the pain of other people. 

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00:13:11

And so days like this are really difficult, I will be staying away from the radio all day. I cannot hear the phone call of, Hey Jules, if you know, you know, and that's that, we appreciate you all. We understand it's the 20th anniversary. And this is a big milestone from that day, which is weird to say that it was 20 years ago, 

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00:13:38

Years ago since I got married 20 years ago, since I graduated college 20 years ago, just that's a lot of 20 years ago. 

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00:13:49

Yes. I'm old people. So yeah, we're not, we're not trying to completely skip over it and not acknowledge it cause we acknowledge it. But it's, it's a heart. We've both been to New York. We've both seen things that are there and it's, it's hard. So if you or anyone, you know, was affected by that day in any way, we, our hearts go out to you and we love you. And we know that this is probably, you know, even though y'all, won't hear this for a couple of weeks or so we know this is a hard day for y'all too. So 

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00:14:23

Even harder, 

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00:14:24

Even harder than us, you know, we're just, we're in Alabama. So we didn't live, you know, close to it or anything. But we anyways, there were a lot of different things that we were aware of. I will say that. And so that's that, I mean, if we're just gonna just really start out at a low note, but I told Leah earlier, what was really weird, as I said, did you realize that nine 11 is now in history books? And that blew my mind the other day when I heard that, because that's, I'm not, I guess I didn't think of that, but whatever, for some, she still told Gus and he used to. I know. 

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00:15:05

And so, yeah. So our events in 1817, we have, I think we got a pretty good list of it for this week. So January 2nd, the second bank of the U S opened in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, where like everything opened like it, which I know we talked about in our episode where we did, we talked about Philadelphia, but it's like, everything started in Philadelphia. I want to go to Philly. I've never been there. I've never been there either. Road trip, February 7th, Baltimore, Maryland became the first American city lit by gas streetlamps. 

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00:15:45

I have been there with the first. I've never no lit by gas street lamps with the first street lamp turned on at, I believe it's Markin and lemon streets. Well, there you go. Today. The street names are Baltimore and holiday streets. If anyone is wondering why they change, I don't know here at the wall. Well y'all should guys, if you're listening to our podcasts, you should understand that national treasure reference and we still love you. But when you go watch it now, pause this podcast, go, listen, go watch it. 

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00:16:27

Now we both absolutely love national treasure. There should be a third movie. I'm not going to get into it. Oh gosh. Raleigh needs to have his day in the sun. Riley love Riley. So March 2nd, the first evangelical church building was dedicated in new Berlin, Pennsylvania, March 3rd, the Mississippi territory is divided into Mississippi and the Alabama territory. So that's where the football players went. Alabama, March 4th, James Monroe was inaugurated as the fifth president of the United States. 

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00:17:07

And the vice-president seat is finally filled again with Daniel D Tompkins as the vice-president never heard that name before, but whatever. Yeah, March 8th, the New York stock exchange was founded April 15th. The, the American asylum opened and it is the first permanent us school for the deaf today. It's called the American school for the deaf it shortened to ASD. I wondered if it was, I figured 

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00:17:49

It was something like four, if it was for deaf or maybe even for deficient in some way. And I didn't know the, I don't know the right word to say, like if it was, 

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00:18:05

We get to May 15th. Oh, okay. Yeah. This was the, like I said, the first permanent us school for deaf founded by Reverend Thomas. I believe it's guys. My last name is really hard to say, and this one's spelled very similar to my last name. I believe it's guy you day. Ooh. If I said it wrong, it's fine. Dr. Mason Cogswell and teacher Lauryn. I believe it's Claren I don't know is French in west Hartford, Connecticut May 15th. One month later, the first private mental health hospital opened in the us called the, Hm. 

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00:18:52

This is where me and Leah should go. The asylum for the relief of persons deprived of the use of their reason. 

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00:19:03

Oh, bless. 

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00:19:05

And it opened in Philadelphia. Good Philly today. It's called friends hospital, which is very, a lot shorter than their relief of persons deprived from the use of their reason. 

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00:19:17

Bless it. I mean, totally. We could go. I think we make the, 

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00:19:24

I think so we would have already been there May 16th. The Mississippi river steamboats began at service. July 4th, chief engineer, James Gaetz began construction on the Erie canal and room New York. This is known as one of the greatest engineering works in north America, July 12th, Benjamin Russell coined the phrase, the era of good feelings in the Colombian Centennial newspaper, which was later used to describe American politics from 18, 17 to 1825. 

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00:19:59

Era of good failings. 

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00:20:02

Yes. The era of good feelings. So 18, 17 to 1825, I guess there were no good feelings before this 

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00:20:08

At GAD. 

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00:20:10

So let's see August 18th. 

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00:20:16

You're welcome 

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00:20:16

For that. No, you're going to love this. I believe it's called the Gloucester serpents, but a 60 to 70 foot sea serpent. We're cited off shore and Cape Ann, Massachusetts 

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00:20:36

Did ness come over for her cast? 

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00:20:40

That's what it looks like. You like, look it up, look up the, I think it's called the Gloucester serpent, but it's in 18, 18. I'll put a picture of it also in our Instagram, but yeah, they have like drawing like a depiction of it, but yeah, it was a sea surface was cited off the shore. Do you see it? Isn't it it's messy. That was pretty interesting. September 9th, September 9th, Alexander Twilight. Interesting name the day after my birthday, by the way. Yes. Interest two days ago. So yes, Leah has had a birthday 

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00:21:22

I'm even older now guys. 

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00:21:25

So Alexander Twilight became likely the first African American and this is that's how they coined it was African-American. But the first black person to graduate from a us college with a bachelor of arts at Middlebury college fast. Cool. September 22nd, John Quincy Adams became secretary of state for the U S October 20th, the first Mississippi showboat left Nashville on its maiden voyage. 

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00:21:59

I have always wanted to go on a, on a showboat. 

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00:22:03

I'll be interesting. Another road trip 

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00:22:06

Trip. And then a then a river boat trip. Yes. 

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00:22:09

Yes. Yelly is not going on a cruise anytime soon guys, after the Bermuda triangle. So November 21st, the first Seminole war began November 25th. The first sword swallower performed in the U S and New York city's MI 

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00:22:30

Freaks me out. No, not cool. No, no, no, no, 

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00:22:33

No, no. December 10th Mississippi is his 

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00:22:37

Birthday. 

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00:22:40

Okay. Sorry. She's just Sagittarius. Okay. Ellie, just the day after corn. Huh? Incur Capricorn. Sagittarius. Okay. 

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00:22:50

I mean, not that I care, but I mean, I care about my sister. 

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00:22:53

Yeah, because Ellie's is the next day. Oh, okay. Okay. Cool. Mississippi was admitted as the 20th state of the union making the Alabama territory officially effective because Mississippi became officially a part of the union. So Alabama territory, it was then when the Mississippi territory split, the Alabama territory became official and Mississippi was 

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00:23:17

A state cause Alabama came a state in 18, 19. Yes. 

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00:23:22

One of those weird 

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00:23:23

Facts, I just have bouncing around 

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00:23:25

In my head December 30th, Hawaii plants, coffee for the first time. Oh, I don't really know how they fit, whatever our births in 1817 for July 12th, we have Henry David Thoreau should be a familiar name to some. And he was an author philosopher, naturalist, environmentalist, surveyor historian, tax resistor. And transcendentalist Jack of all trades master of none. Correct. He was a cancer. November 3rd Lennar. Jerome was born. He's the grandfather of Winston Churchill. 

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00:24:07

Interesting. He's a Scorpio deaths in 18, 17 May 12th. We have William Goforth who I believe we discussed him before in some outer might've been during our second episode. I'm not sure, but he was the physician who administered the first smallpox vaccines, June 24th, Thomas McKean. He was a lawyer and president of the continental Congress and a signer of the declaration of independence. He died. And September 18th, William Charles Wells was the physician who made the first clear statements regarding natural selection. 

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00:24:52

Hmm. So from 1870, we don't have an exact date on this. Cause usually, you know, at the beginning, I always give you all a date of kind of for the case, but from 1817 to 1822, Samuel Green had new England gripped in fear and maliciously earns the title of America's first public enemy done, done Dawn. You'll see why we are in Meredith. New Hampshire is where we started out this week. It's a lovely name. It is. It's located. I think it's Belk Belk nap Belkin up interesting county, which is only one of two counties in New Hampshire that don't border. 

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00:25:38

Another state Merrimack county is the other one, but it's not as lovely, but both counties are the only two counties in New Hampshire that do not border another state because you know, new Hampshire's real thin and small. So yeah, there's only two counties that don't touch another state. So interesting. This is one of them. Meredith was originally known as Palmer's town after Samuel Palmer, who was responsible for serving most of the land. Leah's going to like this word around lake <inaudible>. Ooh, that's kind of fun to say no, it's not. 

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00:26:18

If you saw how it spilled, it's not. I'm glad you said it for me. The town was granted its charter by Masonian proprietors in 1748. Many of those who helped the town get its charter were actually from Salem, Massachusetts. And it was renamed briefly from Palmer's town to new Salem. So it was new Salem, New Hampshire in 1768, governor John Wentworth, granted a new charter naming the town Meredith after sir William Meredith, who was a member of parliament who opposed taxation on the colonies. 

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00:26:58

I like Kim farmers in the area originally grew corn, wheat, rye and potatoes, but it's most notable for apple orchards. We like apples. Yes. It's connected by the Boston, Concord and Montreal railroad. And it was done in March of 1849 and the town became a summer resort area. So lake walk, he one another, another one was a water power site. And by 1859, Meredith had a saw mill Gris, mill, shingle, mill blacksmith, shop, harness makers, shop and tannery. 

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00:27:40

They had about everything they did with the booming economy in Meredith visitors came from the altun bay Depot board, steam ships. The most famous was the original S S Mount Washington. One of the most notable people from Meredith New Hampshire is Bob Montana. The original illustrator of the Archie comics. Interesting. One of the other most notable people is the topic of today's episode. Why, why so pure for Meredith? Sorry about it. Hey, at least you're known for something. 

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00:28:20

I mean, my hometown is known for something that we'll just say, we'll just say this. Keep going. Yes. It, it, it was a trying time and changes had to be immediately made. It was, it was, it was a thing, but yes, if you, you would just keep moving. Samuel Green was born in Meredith New Hampshire and we're just going to start out with a bang here because his parents thought he was possessed by a demon. Gosh, believe so. 

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00:29:02

I couldn't find out, you know, if he had a bunch of siblings or anything. Cause that was so sad. They thought he was possessed by a demon because like most other children, even today he skipped school several times and then he lied about it. Is that the only reason? Yes. Oh my gosh. Unfortunately we are in the early 18 hundreds at this point and people believed in some wild things, especially those who were described as quote, poor, simple folk Green's parents fell into this category and they thought that the, the quote, the devils plural, the devils could be beaten out of him with a whip. 

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00:29:57

Oh 

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00:29:58

No. 

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00:30:00

When green was a teenager, he was an apprentice for a blacksmith. He was caught stealing and then beaten with a horsewhip in retaliation for the beating. He decided to destroy the blacksmith's garden, but he refused to admit it. He was whipped again, a little trickle trigger warning for some animal cruelty here. So skip green through the family, dog down the well and due to there being a dead animal in the world, the water was contaminated. The well had to be cleaned, which was a major expense to the green family. And what do you know? He was whooped again, still not learning his lesson from any of the, 

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00:30:45

Who was it? His own dog or the blacksmith? 

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00:30:50

The family dog, his family dog, the green family dog. 

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00:30:55

Oh no. That's just even worse. His own dog. That's just even worse. So as someone who is just, well, 

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00:31:04

This is another one that's look 

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00:31:06

I'm in the middle of y'all y'all know I adopted, 

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00:31:10

We put it on our Instagram. They're on there. They're under a post and yeah, it's 

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00:31:16

One of my babies Leonard. I was on my way to the beach and I get a phone call for my husband. Leonard escaped through a very small hole in our fence that had patched up an air conditioner repair man came and not the board that was blocking the hole. He knocked it out and Leonard escape. Y'all it's been a week and Leonard has knocked come home. So I'm sad because my dog is on the Lam. I think somebody got themselves a new poodle. They saw him and said, oh, a party poodle. Like he's, you know, like, 

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00:31:57

And 

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00:31:58

It's adorable, durable, like he's on his feet and his picture because they had to shave him. Cause he was in a puppy mill, but y'all he's adorable. So somebody got themselves a new poodle means Sage did that's 

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00:32:10

Ups. I guess Lee is very sensitive about dogs right now. Cool. 

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00:32:13

All the time. But especially because I'm missing my dog. So you going to put your own dog down a well, yeah you, 

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00:32:21

So this is also not great. There's more, since he didn't learn his lesson from anything else again, trigger warning, guys. He cut the family pig's throat and then guess what happened? He got eaten. 

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00:32:38

Yes. 

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00:32:39

It was wait a minute. Don't they raise the pigs though. It was called. They specifically called it like the family pig, like a family pet. Yeah. Okay. It was almost as if it was a game of cat and mouse, but the roles changed each time and they were just kind of waiting for the other one to give up. But what the green family did not know is that Samuel wasn't going to just give up finally, the green family caved and sent him to new Hampton, New Hampshire to live with a family friend named Albert dune for a short period of time. Green decided to follow the rules and he went to school, but that only lasted for a short amount of time and he became bored. 

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00:33:25

And then he was back to his normal illegal activities. When dune found out that green was skipping school, a surprise prize, he was beaten by dune. Not long after green saw, not long after green saw a Jew's heart in a local shop. I tried looking up what this actually is, and it wasn't very clear from what I could see as to how it works. It falls in the category of a lamella phone, which is a member based on what I found. It's a member of the family of instruments that make sound by a thin vibrating plate, which is fixed at one end. 

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00:34:09

And the other end is free. Look up a huge Tracey trouble. Yeah, just a mouth heart. It's not a mouth harp. It's it's, it's like a thumb piano. Like you hold it in both hands. And then there's a hole in the middle of it. There's a metal bar at the top. And then there's little bitty prongs of different lengths that go down and use your thumbs to like click it. And it that's how you that's how you play on it. Anyways. That was what I could find is a good example. I think it's a Colomba I think is what a lot of people will call it as a Colombo with a K. 

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00:34:53

And so that's a good example of what a lamella phone is. A Jew's harp is a single tongue instead of several songs at different links to produce different sounds either way green saw this and decided it looked pretty cool or that he could sell it to get some money for himself, but either way he stole it from the local shop. And once it was found out, he was quote flogged. He decided that he wanted to go back to home to his parents, but that didn't work out well either. So they found out what happened while he was living with dune. And it said that they trigger warning, beat him unconscious. 

0  

00:35:35

Oh, they meaning the parents, the parents, they then sent him back to dune. Once greener arrived back in new Hampton dune, took it upon himself to also whip green for running back to his parents. And this is a pretty bad trigger warning. So just, just, just go ahead. And he beat him so badly that a layer of flesh was peeled from his back green decided he was going to kill dune a green set up a trap. That would cause an ad, which it kind of reminds me of the game, a mouse trap, you know, like how you play that. 

0  

00:36:16

I loved that. So now the pieces were really total trash. Yeah, they were, they, they should, they should have made that much better. So green set up a trap that would cause an ax to fall on the man's head as he entered his workshop. Oh, a word. If this failed, he planned for a pitch fork to slide down on top of him from Volvo barn door dunes, skirted those attempts and only had minor injuries. So apparently he wasn't very smart either. No. And another trigger warning guys, I told you there's lots here and there a dune tag green to the barn door and quote, he was whipped until his back was a welted bloody massive flush. 

0  

00:37:02

After the intent speeding by dune green decided once again that he was going to retaliate and he destroyed a barrel of cider and stole several bushels of corn from dune. He was whipped again when he was caught green decided to burn down dunes barn, but it was quickly put out. And again, green was not only whipped, but quote, beaten senseless. I don't think whipping works with him. I it's, it w the two continued for months until dune finally gave up. And I'm not really sure what caused him to give up, but it's possible that Greene was just getting old enough and strong enough that dune couldn't really fight him off anymore. 

0  

00:37:43

Personally, I would have given up after the first two times that green decided to kill me, but kinda been like young, young kid. We're going to take a break here and discuss something rather important when it comes to these criminals who were just on a whole other level of evil that we really can't comprehend. There is an age old debate on nature versus nurture. And which one is more likely to be the stronger factor of the two. For those who aren't really aware nature is essentially pre-wiring by genetic inheritance and other biological factors. Nurture is the influence of external or environmental factors. 

0  

00:38:25

A lot of times today, the terms aren't nature versus nurture, but they call it genetics versus environment. Oh, a website called side-on or like sigh, like site like psychologists, P H S Y P P H Y S org.com reported a scientific study published by the university of Manchester, which found that nurture indeed had a greater effect than nature. By this point, it seems that Samuel Green has definitely been given the short end of the stick as far as nurturing goes while he, so while he committed his own atrocities and my personal belief, it is acceptable to feel sorry for the adolescent, Samuel Green, but not the teen adult seem no green as a child. 

0  

00:39:21

He didn't have much control over the situation he was in. I mean, yes, he could have stayed in class and he could have not skipped school and he could have followed the rules, but he was also a child. Let's not forget that people, he was a child. Right. 

1  

00:39:35

And I'm certain, I'm certain that something, something started before that, I mean, you know, my background is in education and I D I took child psychology. 

0  

00:39:49

Yeah. And there you might be going in the same direction that I was going. Okay. So we'll see. Okay. Cause we will get on a topic of something just hold on a sec. Okay. A parent's job, you know, is to love and nurture their child and not beat them within an inch of their life. Every time they make a wrong decision. I mean, that's my personal opinion, but I have two words for everyone listening, frontal lobe. Mm Leah knows that I can go on and on about this topic. I'm very passionate about it. And I find it fascinating. It is, it is very fast, but your frontal lobe is where your maturity and development live. 

0  

00:40:33

Your frontal lobe is involved in memory, language, judgment, motor function, problem solving, spontaneity, impulse controls, and social and sexual behaviors. 

1  

00:40:43

It takes a long time to develop. It's not developed when you're 15, it's not developing you're 16. It's not developing your 18. 

0  

00:40:51

This part of someone's brain isn't fully developed until they are 25. I did look into detail into this 25 is the age across the board. It doesn't matter how smart you are or how fast others perceive you develop. The golden number is 25. So for people who are child prodigies, who, who are the children like I saw the other day, there's this nine-year-old girl that's like in college, it Sheldon Coopers. Yeah. I mean, you know, regardless of how intelligent you are, you can't speed up development of you can't really speed up development, body parts in general, but you definitely cannot speed up development of the brain. 

0  

00:41:39

And so the frontal lobe is where all of that information is kind of stored and you, which is why some states, while it's controversial, want to raise the juvenile age 25 because of this whole study on frontal lobe. I mean, I don't know if I a hundred percent, I don't know my opinion on that. I'm just saying that is the drinking age is 21 and adult age is 18. And so, you know, yes. So saying we, you know, which keep in mind also you can join the military, but you can't buy a drink, but whatever. I mean exactly. You know, what message are we sending? Exactly. 

0  

00:42:18

So just keep that in mind, guys, the golden number is it is 25. So take serial killers. For example, studies have shown that significant frontal lobe damage can contribute to the personality traits or lack of personality traits in an individual in a study of 31 serial killers, 20 were shown to have significant frontal lobe damage in early childhood. So which averages out to 64%, this is a significant number because it does wage into the nurture versus nature conversation. 

0  

00:43:00

I'll make it abundantly clear here before anyone. I know some people kind of clean or do whatever while they listen to podcast. I am not saying frontal lobe damage makes a serial killer. I am saying it is likely it is a serial killer is 64% more likely to have frontal lobe damage. Like I was talking to my boyfriend the other day about this exact topic. And I said, you know, like where you hit on the head when you were younger, because that's where a lot of it comes in. Like, you'll see with some serial killers, like they'll fall off something and they'll hit their head and they'll have a concussion. And that's kind of where a lot. 

0  

00:43:40

And he was like, yeah, I mean, I had, you know, he played football when he was younger and stuff. And he's like, I had a lot of, you know, I've had concussions and I've hit my head on things really hard. And so we had that conversation. So I'm not saying that if you get hit in the head, you're going to become a serial killer. I'm saying if you're a serial killer, it's very likely that you were hit in the head. Those are two different things just to make sure everyone's aware. In the case of Samuel Green, it is hard to ignore the significant amount of abuse he suffered as a child. And you can't, you can't assume that that abuse had nothing to do with the crimes he committed later. 

0  

00:44:24

Correct? We will never know for certain, if he did have frontal lobe damage due to this being over 200 years ago, however, based on the facts that we know, it would be impossible to say with complete certainty that he did not. I believe there is a very large possibility that he did because I've taught guys, I've talked about how hard it is to research these cases. I showed Leah some something I was having to read earlier, and it was just ridiculous, but it would think of the amount of stories that I've already said that we've discussed of where he did something. And he was beaten. Those are the stories we know about. 

0  

00:45:06

How many do we not know about? Right. Think of how little things were documented back then, what do we not know? And there has to be a lot more to it. So also frontal lobe damage is not an excuse if you're a serial killer, I'll go ahead and say that too. No, it's not 

1  

00:45:22

An excuse. 

0  

00:45:23

I'm just saying that these are psychological studies that have shown just different things in development, you know, such as this. So keep that in mind. It is unfortunate, but still golden number is 25 for frontal lobe development. So do with that, what you will 

1  

00:45:44

Well, and that, and that's exactly what I was going to say. Yeah, 

0  

00:45:48

Yeah. I was like, I think we're going in the same direction with this. 

1  

00:45:53

You said his parents said that he had the devil in him and you know, it couldn't have been just from the fact that he skipped school. I'm certain that they had formed that opinion of him before that. And we've heard from the story, it was beatings. And if it wasn't this, it was, it was abuse and it was severe abuse. And from what we've heard, mess likely it wasn't just physical abuse. It was verbal abuse. It was emotional, emotional, you know, being told that you have the devil in you. So if you're told you have the devil in you all Bargale, I'll show you, I've got the devil in me. 

1  

00:46:35

You know what I mean? I mean, if you're told that enough, I mean, again, not excusing his behavior, not not saying well, of course he did this. I mean, it's his parents' fault that he did this because at, at a point you had to take responsibility for your behavior. Absolutely. But if you grow up hearing and being told, you've got the devil in you, you're evil. You're bad. Well, what are you going to do? ENL? Why am I going to school? I'm nothing, you know, I'm so horrible. I'm not, I'm worthless. Why do I need to go to school to learn? You know, I mean, I'm just saying, 

0  

00:47:18

Yeah, there's a lot in which, which is why I was saying it is perfectly, in my opinion, perfectly normal to feel sorry for the adolescent, Samuel Green. Now, even though 25 is the golden age, you know, for frontal lobe development, a lot of the crimes that we're going to see happened when he was a teen and into his early adulthood and, 

1  

00:47:49

And while take response, he needs to take responsibility for his actions. 

0  

00:47:53

You can reason. Now I know that there's a lot of different paths that you can go with this. And I understand there are exceptions to every rule, but if you can understand that murder is wrong and if you can understand the no right is wrong, then yes. So, you know, I do understand in some cases there have been cases where people just developmentally don't know anyways, there's a lot of different things that are out there, dog 

1  

00:48:21

Down a, well, you know, that's wrong, 

0  

00:48:23

Like period, wrong. 

1  

00:48:25

And you don't do that to animals. Get me the dog. If you are wanting to harm it, just give it to me. 

0  

00:48:30

We'll get this 200 year old dog. I'll take it. So after leaving dune green decided that he was going to start a career passing counterfeit notes with a friend he met named William Ash. Well, at least 

1  

00:48:46

It wasn't a killing career. 

0  

00:48:48

Just wait. They met a traveling salesman named Franklin Lumus. Lumus was their mentor who taught them how to forge bank notes and steal from the homes of the rich local businesses and banks. They scammed around the north Hampton area for some time until people started to grow suspicious of the amount of money they had for such a young age. So they fixed the problem by just traveling around to different towns. One day, while walking by a school house, there were children playing outside in the snow. A sled was speeding by loaded with children and the men through a large branch under the sleigh, almost killing the children on the sleigh that was unkind. 

0  

00:49:34

The school master beat, both Ash and green severely the two waited for the school master in a remote area until the school master left for the night. 

1  

00:49:47

They let the school master beat them. I mean like they just waited around all this. 

0  

00:49:52

No. So the school master saw it and immediately beat them. And then after that happened, the two waited outside. But I mean 

1  

00:50:01

Like it's two grown men and a schoolmaster. 

0  

00:50:04

I don't know how many other people around. Okay. I was just I'm I'm not sure on that, but continue. They knocked him unconscious with the rock and then proceeded trigger warning here. They then proceeded to strip him naked in the snow and lift him to freeze to death. He was found a few hours and barely recovered from the attack, but he did live. Was he able to identify them? Nobody knew who they were so green and Ash traveled through Gulliford and Burlington, Vermont and green decided to join the army. 

0  

00:50:47

Oh, that's the kind of person we want a green on uncle Sam wanted him. No green only joined the army at this time because he found out that he could be paid a hefty sum of money for his service. Of course, it wasn't long until he realized that military life wasn't for him. Cause you got to follow orders. Anyone AWOL, shocker. They said AWOL I'm I'm saying desertion. He wasn't coming back. Nah, he was caught and then thrown into the guard house. And he was beaten as punishment for trying to leave. He again, escaped and returned back to his family in New Hampshire. A lot of beading in his life. 

0  

00:51:28

There really is a, at this point, Greene had accumulated quite a bit of money and had thousands of dollars in counterfeit bills. He did something very odd. At this point, he bought his mom a cow and I was going to say it was, it's been kine. This is the only sign of affection of love that he ever showed anyone in his life. And it was when he bought his mother a cow, was he calling her a heifer, the rest of the money he had spent on a horse, fancy clothes, meals, and expensive jewelry. The money finally ran out green and Ash were back on their usual antics and on their way to Boston, they started passing counterfeit bills. 

0  

00:52:09

Again, green was employed by a man who wasn't named this man taught green, how to cheat at cards, duplicate keys and pick locks. Was this he who shall not be named possibly green was hired out as a servant to a wealthy man. He played his role really well and became really trusted by this employer. And then late one night, he robbed the house of its valuables and fled into the night. Green and Ash became highway robbers, much like the harp brothers. In episode three, they came across a jewelry salesman in bath, New Hampshire who allowed the two to look at the merchandise. 

0  

00:52:53

The two men then hid and waited for the man to come by later. And they ambushed him. The peddler was knocked from his mule and then the men took his money. Ash wanted to kill the peddler, but green hesitated for a second before he slammed the club down onto the man's head and killed him on the spot. He had a moment of hesitation, a moment that little Jimminy cricket on his shoulder was like, Ooh, maybe, maybe not demon. Yeah. Then he killed that cricket after this green became reckless and he just tore through new England robbing and murdering anyone that he thought would, you know, should die. 

1  

00:53:33

Just wanted to, I mean, 

0  

00:53:35

You know, he was put in jail several times during his spree, but there wasn't enough evidence to indict him on any charges. He escaped from the jail several times as well. And it was of course with his friend ashes help. One time when the two men were robbing a jewelry store, green fought his way through an entire group of officers and shot several of them in the process. Yikes. He was arrested for this and placed in jail. He was found guilty after a short trial and sentenced to hang by the night till death 

1  

00:54:09

To be a very large man. Or was he just that name and tough? I mean, I'm just curious. 

0  

00:54:20

I think he was just that cold. I think he was just, just that cold and you know, people didn't really assume for people to be that way at this time. 

1  

00:54:31

Okay. There's just a lot of, a lot of things that he's done. And I'm just imagining, imagining this Hulk brute of a man, you know, hoping brute of a man for all these things that he's done, you know, fighting off a group of officers and such Well, like I'm imagining the rock or, or larger, 

0  

00:54:51

You know, so 

1  

00:54:54

One would like to meet him by the way. 

0  

00:54:55

And he was very kind. He really does. His tequila is really good. It's Terra Monta. It's really good. If anybody's looking for a good tequila that you want to spend some money on Terra, Mon is a really good one or tornadoes anyways, sponsor us, especially terroir. If I can meet the rock, that'd be great. One of the few tequilas that you can actually drink and it doesn't have that weird, like when, like you're not going to drink it and then like wince after, you know, I'm not a tequila. I know you could, you could drink this one. And that, that's what I'm saying. Cause you know 

1  

00:55:32

That it's not a drinker anyway. 

0  

00:55:35

It's not it. Yeah. It's a very, very, very smooth tequila. 

1  

00:55:42

We'll try it. And if the rock wanted to come and you know, pour me a shot, I mean, I would try it. 

0  

00:55:49

He did a tick talk where it was like the tequila challenge. And what it was is if you take a shot of tequila without making a face afterwards and you know how like tequila does that, like, you're like, Ooh, so this tequila doesn't do that. Whatever it's made of. So somebody challenged the rock, he drank an entire bottle and guys like, I know that you're like, oh my God, he drank and attack. If you see the amount of food this man eats every day. I mean 

1  

00:56:20

Just 

0  

00:56:21

Not even as cheat day, his day of the man eats so much anyways, it's soaked it up somehow. But I love him. He's too. He's great. There's an officer. Have you seen the posts in Alabama? That looks exactly like him and in that post, the rock said, you know, like, thank you for your service. I bet you have like some really great stories. Maybe we could get, maybe we could get a drink sometime. And he said something about Terra mana tequila. So anyways, just pure looking for a good tequila. Yeah. So Ash broke him out of jail again and they vanished again. Green became restless and had to go on another crime spree. 

0  

00:57:04

He burglarized stores in Albany, New York and then traveled to Middlebury, Vermont. He had to go in under the, had to there he robbed and murdered a traveler. This is when his crimes kind of went off the rails and trigger warning. Guys. His crimes then became a rape horse theft, burglary counterfeiting in murder from Montclair, Vermont to Schenectady New York. And then from, I believe it's it's sacred or Sacco Maine. Sorry. I know we have some main listeners to Barre Vermont. That was kind of his entire, it was the murder triangle. 

0  

00:57:45

If you will, you had the Bermuda triangle. Guess that's what? This is. Berta triangle murder, poly gone. Maybe. I don't know. I didn't look at her map. So this is what earned him. The name of America's first public enemy. Number one, a huge bounties were offered to capture green and bring him in. And it's no surprise that half of the country was looking for him. Okay. So he 

1  

00:58:12

Public enemy number one, but he's got this buddy, is his buddy not participating in near this? He's just kind of a sidekick that comes and gets him out of a jam. 

0  

00:58:22

It seems that green was the main instigator and Ash was not. And I think based on what I have read and seen, I believe green was more distinctive than Ash. So I think that could have been to how he was, you know, more of the target. So yeah, everybody was looking for him. No real surprise. There. He was caught again when he was completely drunk and stole $30 of goods from a local store, just $500 today. He went to Boston state prison for four years. True to Green's form. He tried to escape several times and had to have quote, special shackles, 

1  

00:59:07

Special shackles. 

0  

00:59:09

Yes. He got to have special shackles. Would you like to know what special shot 

1  

00:59:15

Did they got spikes? Do they got, do they have spikes? 

0  

00:59:20

They were weighted clogs, which made his movements slower. And each time several years were added to his sentence when he tried to escape. Oh yeah. He was also in solitary confinement at this time and found out that another prisoner Billy Williams had told the guards about his escape to temps. When green got out of solitary confinement, he was after the man who informed on him. Oh no, he put poison in William's food. But William knew he had a target on his back and he was too scared to eat where to get. 

0  

01:00:03

I wild times it was on November 8th, 1821. When green cornered Williams in a shop, he was holding an iron bar and sorry, guys. He beat Williams immediately fracturing his school, even though Williams was unconscious green, continued to beat him and yup. Trigger warning. If you don't want to hear about some injuries, skip forward just a bit. Cause it's split. Cringy us. Do that. Now go ahead. Green kept beating him with the bar, eventually breaking all of William's ribs, arms and legs. It took Williams a week to die of his injuries on April 25th, 1822, green was hanged for Williams murder before he was hung. 

0  

01:00:56

The priest asked if green had any final words. Green said he had no words for the crowd and quote. They shall know my fate for, I have written my confession out in full. The priest continued on and asked if green was going to repent for the sins. He committed in true green form. He said, quote, if you wish it, oh, ma the trap door was open under greens feet. Hmm. Another trigger, sorry. The rope snapped his neck. And he was dead almost immediately. The confession that he stated that he had written was never found. 

0  

01:01:36

And it is likely because of this, that Samuel Green has been widely forgotten in the history of American crime. And that is the story of America's first public enemy. Number one. Well, wasn't he, isn't he a, the light. Oh my gosh. It was, it was, as I was reading, I was like, and he's beaten again and he's and again and again, and it, okay. It just keeps going. There is no stopping. I am certain that his upbringing had absolutely nothing to do with it. Right. I mean, sane. At a point, you do have to take personal responsibility and 

1  

01:02:19

Can't do this at a point. You do have to take personal responsibility and decide what you're going to do with your life. 

0  

01:02:30

Yes. And some of y'all who listen to our show might also listen to morbid at funny enough, there's an Ash on that show. Asheville. She's wonderful. She's beautiful. And she, she said this several times on the podcast that you have a choice at some point in your life as a child who went through traumatic situations in their life. I mean, I will say a lot of people and I, I will never fully tell the story on the podcast. I'm sure of my life. I'm sure that I'll never really come out because it's too long or just, you know, different things that, that I've dealt with and at a younger age. 

0  

01:03:16

And it's, you have a choice at some point of whether you're going to let your childhood define you, or if you're going to let it be a part of your story, 

1  

01:03:33

It can either define you or refine you. 

0  

01:03:35

Yes. You can either choose to let that be the excuse for you to do things as you're older, or you can let it be the reason that you change the course of your story. And, you know, Ash on the, on morbid she's, she's discussed that before. And she, you know, she's discussed several times. She, you know, she has zero relationship with her mother for, for several reasons. And, you know, while my, I don't have the same story that she does, my story is very different. 

0  

01:04:16

And I, you know, I've, I've had quite a few challenges, we'll say with just some things that I've gone through and it would have I'll put it this way. It would have been very, very easy for me to have gone down a different path. Oh yes. It would have been very easy to make different choices in life. 

1  

01:04:47

Well, and my brother-in-law, he has said that he was at his deacon ordination. Actually, he talked about, he did not have the best example of a father. And, and, and he will even tell you, you know, he had an example of what not to do loved, loved. His set has had, has since passed on, loved his dad, no question. And knew his dad loved him. Didn't have the best example of a dad. And, and he, he will tell you, you know, he knew what not to do. 

0  

01:05:27

And that is, he's a great dad. That is very true for myself as well as, as it comes to to dads. I mean, I a great dad. Yeah. I I'm very much the same way of, if you ask me about my dad, I'll tell you he was a super hard worker and he was one of the best people. He was a guy that honestly would do anything for anybody. He had a lot of personal demons he never dealt with, and that led to a lot. And, and honestly, he just didn't really have the support to help him get out of it. 

0  

01:06:09

It, the point that he was at and it was, it was, it was pretty rough. But yeah, I mean, I, I totally get that. You have, you have those situations in your life where you can say, you know, I didn't have an example of this. I don't, I don't know what, you know, I don't, I don't, I don't want to do the same things. I'm not going to go down the same because I have, for those, I mean, y'all can kind of, kind of guess from like context clues, but my dad was an addict for, for years, a very, very, very hard, hard drugs. He was an alcoholic at points and stuff like that. Due to this, if, if you do follow any psychology or anything, addiction can actually be a genetic, it can be genetic. 

0  

01:06:55

And it can, that's why I choked in a previous episode of I come from a long line of unfortunate high tolerances, because it's true. I do, I, I, you know, I've spoken before about how I, I have mental health issues. I'll say I hate to say issues cause they're not really issues. I live with mental health disorders. I don't know. I don't know how to say it. I, you know what I mean? It's one of those things it's like, I don't want it anyways. I have diagnosed mental health things. That's what I'll say. And one of the medications that I take, I have to take a much higher dosage than most people. 

0  

01:07:36

And, and it's it, it is because I apparently have a very high tolerance for medication. And when I first started going to my doctor, you know, she was like, Hey, just FYI, because I was very honest on my thing. Like, this is the issue that I have. This is, this runs in my family. This is on my dad's side. And a lot of other people on my dad's side have, have had similar issues, not so much with drugs, but with alcohol and you know, so I was very honest and telling her those things. And she was very, when I first started seeing her, she was very hesitant on prescribing me certain things that could become addictive. 

0  

01:08:17

Right. So she was like, Hey, like, I'm gonna have, there's a possibility I might have to drug test. You periodically essentially to make sure I'm taking my medication correctly. And I understand it's for my safety. It's also for her safety as a doctor, she's actually a very, very good doctor in that sense of not just giving me something and saying here go, she, she understands the whole, you not just this one little portion of it, which is very important. And after she saw me for quite a while, you know, she knows me now, like she, she knows if I say, yeah, this really isn't working anymore, you know, she can kind of look at it and evaluate and go, okay. 

0  

01:09:00

Yeah. This might be something that you do need a higher dosage on because oh yeah. Trust me guys. When I go to pick up my prescription at the pharmacy, they look at me like I have lost my mind and I'm like, no, no, this is for me to keep my mind busy. This is accurate. They're like, well, so the way that mine mine works, I'm not really ashamed of our medications. I take Wellbutrin, which I'm allergic to wellbeing. We found that out, which is a Welbutrin for me was, oh, it was godson. But for me, I take Wellbutrin and I have to take 450 milligrams Wellbutrin. So to do that, I have to take a 300 milligram and 150 milligram. 

0  

01:09:45

And every week they always look at me like, I'm crazy. They think that I was on one 50 and I got bumped up to three. They don't understand sometimes that it goes to them and I'm like, no, sorry guys. Like, they go together and they're like, are you sure? And I'm like, you want to call my doctor, go for it. Like, she'll tell here. But yeah. I mean, you know, I'm not leaving here until he give me all my medicine. I can't, that's, that's one, that'll give you the zingers if you miss it too many times. And if you've taken any medication for mental health or anything like that, and you've accidentally missed a couple of days or something, you know what I'm talking about? Like the little brains apps that you get, but yes. 

0  

01:10:27

And you know, so we've discussed that before. I, I do come from a family of unfortunate high tolerances and in those experiences, and I'm sure some of our listeners have had, you know, similar experiences in their lives and you could have very easily chosen a different path for your life. It is easy to it's I'll say this it's easy to follow in footsteps than it is to make your own path. Absolutely it is. And if you are somebody who did forge your own path, I'm very proud of you because it's not, it's not easy to, it's not easy. And, and it's, you know, depending on where you're from, depending on the background that you have, you know, it might, it might not be so easy for some people to pull themselves out of different situations or, you know, financials can always be an issue and in different things like that, but it's just, just keep in mind. 

0  

01:11:22

It's like I said, it's always easier to follow in footsteps than to forge your own path. It's always easier 

1  

01:11:29

In many ways, not just, 

0  

01:11:31

Not just in this 

1  

01:11:33

In many, many ways in a Maine, 

0  

01:11:37

You do not have to recreate your childhood for your child, for your children and you don't, you don't. Yeah. You, you, you know, you don't have to do that. You can choose to change. You can choose to, 

1  

01:11:53

And you don't have to recreate your parents' adulthood for yourself. You can choose differently. 

0  

01:11:58

Correct. There's always in, it's never too late to choose a different path. It's never too late to choose something else for yourself. You're never, you're never too far gone. I can say that 

1  

01:12:11

A pink star. 

0  

01:12:13

Yes. And so, you know, I know a lot of stories of people who, you know, I was in a support group for a little while of people who did have people in their lives that either they themselves or addicts, or they had people in their family that were addicts and it was just kinda, it was a really good group to be a part of because yeah, I was in groups with, I was in this group with people who did have addiction issues and had been in recovery. There was someone in the group who relapsed a few times and has since add the best personality about it though. He used to tell people he lived in a gated community for awhile jail. 

0  

01:12:55

Yeah. He had a really good personality about it, but, you know, and he understood, he made his mistake. It's in his, but yeah, he would always say he, he lived in an all-inclusive gated community, which not wrong. So yeah. Guys just, just always remember, and in this case, especially, I do think that had his childhood, 

1  

01:13:18

That he was in 

0  

01:13:20

The yeah. The humor about it, but yeah, just, I believe if Samuel Green's childhood was different, his adulthood would have been very different as well. If he had been told 

1  

01:13:35

He was a pink starboard 

0  

01:13:38

Before Starbursts were a thing. 

1  

01:13:40

I mean the equivalent back then, I don't know. 

0  

01:13:45

You have, you are a perfect hoop and stick. 

1  

01:13:50

Well, I mean like my nephew, I have a nephew and I'll, he just turned five, but it's gotten to where I'll just, he'll be sitting with me and I'll say, Hey, guess what? Guess what? And he'll look at me and say you too. Like, he knows that. I'm going to say, I love you. That's funny, but you can't tell kids. I love you enough. No, I don't tell them how smart they are. How proud of them, you, I mean, I'm not saying like a false are proud, but you know, he, he went with us to the beach and I said, do you remember what floor we're on? 

1  

01:14:36

Number four. That's right. You're so clever. Do you remember what room? We are? Four. Two. Oh. And I said, dude, that's right. Were, I mean, I didn't expect him to remember, but he remembered what room number we were, what floor work. And I mean guys, when they remember just little things like that, praise them for little things. I mean, it can be for the smallest thing that any success, and I'm not saying just inflate their ego, like, oh, well, if you can use a spoon and they're six years old, no, not like that, but just, you know, little successes. I mean, they need to know that they do things right now. 

1  

01:15:16

They do things wrong, you know, 

0  

01:15:18

And understanding that you're done with dinner, you need to put your plate up, right. Six like six year olds. A lot of times don't get that, that, you know, but yeah. I mean, you are right. And, and I make, you know, by all means not a perfect parent at all, but I may, I do make a point to make sure that because I have a daughter, I make it a point when I compliment her. And this might sound very weird as I say this the first time, but give me a second. I'm make it a point to not compliment her and say, she's beautiful. I'm make it a point to say, you're smart. 

0  

01:15:59

You're intelligent. You're like, I want her, I don't want her to grow up and think that her looks are all she is, you are these things too. Like, of course I tell her she's beautiful. And I tell her that, but I make it a point more often to say you were so smart. You're so brave. I'm so proud of you because that goes a long way. 

1  

01:16:22

Complementing there your intellect. Yes. What complementing what makes them them not they're outside, but they're inside. And of course I tell all of my boys and my girls only have of all of my seven Sheeran's. I don't have any of my own. They're all nieces and nephews. I only have two nieces. I have five nephews, but I tell them all how handsome and how beautiful they are, of course, because of course they are. But I also tell them how smart they are, how clever they are, you know, how proud I am of them, for things that they've done. 

1  

01:17:04

And I take interest in what they do, because I mean, I truly am because they're amazing humans and I've known them since birth. And it's just amazing to watch them grow and mature. And, oh my gosh, I've had, I have one that has graduated high school and is in nursing school now, which just crazy, not, not cool. I know she's amazing has the most beautiful brown eyes you will ever see. And it's just precious and sweet and just was the first one to call me aunt Leah. So you know, where she has a special place in my heart, but you know, it's, it's important to let them know that they are special inside and outside. 

1  

01:17:49

And I'm not saying I'm perfect because I mean, you know, I am Mary Poppins practically perfect in every way, but I'm not, you know, I'm not Jesus, but I do try. And 

0  

01:18:00

All these Julie Andrews, 

1  

01:18:02

Whatever I try, I really do try, but I think it's important. And I think that goes well with this case is important to let kids know it's okay not to be perfect. And you know, we have conversations with kids and I've had conversations with, especially my sister's boys. I'm closest with them just because we live in the same town. We get to the same church. I've taught them all in Sunday school. I mean, you know, we're just around each other more and I've had conversations with them about what's okay. And what's not okay. And, and you know, I've had to have real conversations with them, but at the end of this conversations, I remind them, there's nothing they can ever, ever, ever, ever, ever do to make me not love them. 

1  

01:18:48

I might not be happy with them. I might not be proud of what they did just then, right. Or if some of the things they do, but I will always love them. And they can always tell me anything and nothing they can ever say or ever day will make me not love them. And I will always do my best to help them. And I think it's so important that kids know that they have somebody they can come to that will love them no matter what and will help them no matter 

0  

01:19:15

Exactly. And you know, there's, you know, like I said, I have a small daughter and she is, it is beautiful by the way, is this she's a social butterfly. And so she understandably gets in trouble for being a social butterfly at times where she's should be quiet as, as I did at her age too. And you know, and I'll, and she's like, I'm so sorry. You know, like Amy, she knows when she messed up and she's, she understands to an extent, you know that, but she'll say, I don't want you to be mad or, you know, she'll say stuff like that. And I've told her the thing that I always tell her is I, so what's tomorrow, she goes a new day. 

0  

01:20:01

I'm like, that's exactly right. Tomorrow is a new day to make new decisions. You can't change what happened today, but tomorrow is a new day that we can look forward to. And now we know what to do tomorrow. We know what we know what we did today that we shouldn't have done and we know what to do tomorrow. And she's like, you know, she's understandably, she still gets in trouble for some things that she does, but you know, but there's also there. There's that line where, you know, you also have to say, okay, we made a mistake. We had a discussion. How are we going to pick ourselves up and move forward? Right? Where do we go from here? Because we can either sit here and we can dwell on the bad, or we can look to see how we can change our behavior. 

0  

01:20:44

Right. So, you know, and again, I am not at all a perfect parent. I have had a lot of therapy, a lot of my, a lot of my responses to my child, or sometimes maybe possibly scripted from my therapist. So, but I mean, in, in saying that to therapy did teach me a lot of those things of like, they're, they're coping they're they're yeah. Tomorrow is another day. Tomorrow is it's, you know, you can't, but that's good. You can't only go forward. And you got to teach kids that too, that, you know, you, you can't go back. You can't change what you already did, even though I put your past your behind what they be, the lion king, of course, where my child, anyways, guys, my child is her mother made over, by the way, I'm either raising a budding true crime enthusiast or possibly a serial killer. 

0  

01:21:52

I mean, at least now animals and giblets. Oh, that's true. She, she watches a lot of Scooby-Doo, so we're probably veering towards true crime. So, so that's probably good. He asked me about that again the other day, by the way. It's so funny, but, and I, and I do, which was funny that you sent me the other day, I watched Scooby-Doo growing up and you know, my theory, I have a theory that kids who watched Scooby-Doo later on in life become people who liked true crime, but my daughter loves Scooby-Doo like loves it. And so, and something Leah sent me the other day and it was so true is that Scooby doo taught us that Mont that monsters can be everyday people. 

0  

01:22:39

And that is, I think that's a really good lesson for like your kids too, because yeah, sometimes, sometimes the worst monsters are the people that you possibly know. And you gotta just, you gotta protect yourself. You gotta be aware of your surroundings. Saw it. And I was like, oh, I gotta send that to Kayla. I'll watch them. Whether like we watch them all the time. We've watched so many Scooby doo maybe gotten away with it to every time. But it's anyways, it's so funny. So I know we've already talked to his ears off for long enough at this point. And you're like, please shut up to which Elliot, sometimes Ellie will go. Can I say a bad word? 

0  

01:23:19

Let's not discuss the bad word that she said the other day, but oh, she, she said, can I say something bad? And usually I'll say most of the time, I'll say, what is it? You know, I, we all know cuss a lot. I don't on the podcast a lot. She don't in front of Ellie. No, I mean in front of your daughter, but they already know her name, but I, I have my own views on, on things like that while yes. Words can hurt people. Words are also just words. And you know, I think that if you put too much power into certain, for sure. 

0  

01:24:04

So I just, you know, if she hears it, I don't immediately go, oh, that's about you. Don't say that. I don't, you don't make a big deal. Now. I don't say anything. If it comes up later, I'll say something, but I don't say anything. And like attention to, I just don't draw attention to it. She picked up a new phrase, which I know where she picked it up from, but she said, can I say something bad? And I said, yeah, yeah, I guess you can't guys, this isn't really that bad to just for warning. But for her, I was like, where did you hear that? But as soon as she said it, I was like, I know exactly where that I said, usually as you know, I'll say, well, what do you want to say? And she'll say, can I say stupid? 

0  

01:24:44

Or can I say shut up? Because I'll tell her you don't say that to people. Like I understand. Right. It's you. And I say it in a way of it's okay to say words, but you gotta be really careful what words you say to people. And so I try to explain the difference of saying a word and saying something towards someone. And so which we've discussed this, the trees, it's a whole ordeal over by my house. There's this whole road that used to be absolutely. It was like canopied and trees. And it was so nice down at the other day and they've cut down a lot of them. And so we've passed that road in a little go, can I say a bad word? And I'm like, yeah, she'll go. This is stupid. Like, you know, she'll say stuff like that. 

0  

01:25:25

So the other day we were in the kitchen and she said, can I say something? Can I say a bad word? And I didn't know. I, you know, I thought it was either, it was one of those two things. And I said, yeah, baby, like, you know, I appreciate your asking. Yeah. And she goes, what the hell? And I went, I'm sorry, what? And she just started laughing. And I said, I'm sorry, did you hear that? And then it clicked with me and I said, did you hear it? And I said, from here, and she just looked at me and I said, okay, that's where we, it got it. But, and I just said, baby, we just don't, you don't need to say that. 

0  

01:26:07

And I didn't say anything. I don't, I don't say, oh, those are bad words like that. I just always go. Yeah. We just don't need to say that. And I've explained to her that sometimes there are words that are just adult words. And when you become an adult, you can say them, but you're not an adult right now. And I don't tell her like, oh, it's bad. Like I just say, that's just an adult word that we don't use. You know? And even though I do, I'm like, he never, mommy's never said that word and she'll go, no, you haven't. I'm like, okay. So, you know, when you become an adult, you can decide whether you want to hear those names or not. You know, you can decide whether you want to say those words or not when you become an adult, but right now we do, we can't use those words. 

0  

01:26:49

It's not, it's not words that, that someone, your age should say. And so she'll just go. And then she's like, kinda like stupid. And I'm like, yes. Now God bless my child. If she ever heard me when I'm not around her, but many. And it's just how I am. It's part of my charm. 

1  

01:27:11

Yeah. Speaking of words, five-year-old nephew stepped on a nail that wasn't all the way in, on my parents deck. Like, you know how sometimes, well, it wasn't like the point 

0  

01:27:25

Where it's kind of like worked its way. If you were a kid that grew up in the south on the, you know, what that feels like. 

1  

01:27:35

And he said, dang it. But he didn't say dang. And it was just me and his mom with him. And his mom said, well, his mom and I looked at each other for a second and she w you know, we've got to look. And I said, what? And he repeated himself. And she said, Hey, how about we say, you know, yeah, dang it. Or we change, you 

0  

01:28:06

Know, we say this instead, 

1  

01:28:09

But I prefer five years old. Thank you very much. I prefer, 

0  

01:28:15

I see. Not my child. I'm a, no, he is his mother's child. I'll say that. Well, 

1  

01:28:20

And he has, he has teenage brothers. So, and so, I mean, like, I just turn around because I mean, no, it's not okay for him to use that, those words. And so he, you know, he gets a talking to about, it's not okay to use those words, you know, you know, it's not okay. But I turned around because just the opera for like, he is like a 25 year old. 

0  

01:28:47

I prefer for you to not tell me what to do. Ma'am I may live my life. Oh gosh. Kids are so funny. I absolutely, I will say this to my child was not allowed to say a word for quite a while. We're just going to, the word was Fox. So for a very long time, she actually told she was in a 4k or something like that. And she told her teacher, they were learning about animals. And one day I picked her up and the teacher goes, yeah, Ellie said that she's not allowed to talk about box boxes. And I was like, really? 

0  

01:29:27

And she said, yeah, I'm not really sure why, because she had gotten older at that point. And she said, yeah, she just, we, we were talking about it in class. And, and she said, she wasn't allowed to talk about boxes. And I said, oh, and I had to explain why, because when Ellie first learned that word, it did not come out as Fox. And so we, so for the longest time, she just thought, oh, well, no, I can't. My family doesn't like box. Yeah. Oh gosh. There's things that come out of that. Kid's mouth it's. It's so funny. And I had to explain to her, I was like, no, no, we like foxes. 

0  

01:30:08

And she, thankfully she didn't ever ask why, but I was like, no, maybe like we, you know, I said, yeah, there was, there was one point, you know, we, we couldn't really talk. We couldn't really talk about him. And, and she didn't really ask why I just said, we just couldn't talk about him for a bit. And I said, but no, you can talk about Fox. Oh yeah. I was like, they're really cute. So yeah. Good times, speech impediments. It was funny. 

1  

01:30:35

I have a nephew that had a speech impediment. He was younger and he did his, he said his case, like a T. And I had on my soft kitty shirt that had this song. And so I taught him the song for that song, kitty, 

0  

01:30:56

Kitty. That's not what 

1  

01:30:59

Yeah. Oh gosh. That was funny. He sang it and I went, oh, no. That's 

0  

01:31:09

All right. Sorry to talk your ears off this week, guys. I'm sorry about the long episode. 

1  

01:31:15

I'm sure you'll cut 

0  

01:31:16

Half of it, but I'm sure. I'm sure I'll cut some of it. Cause it was quite long. We have a website where you can find any and all Owen, UC information you were looking for. It's one nation under crime.com. We are one nation under crime on Facebook and Instagram and at, oh, in UC pod on Twitter. If you love our podcasts, like we've said before, rate and review us with five stars, give us a comment. You 

1  

01:31:41

Not love us. 

0  

01:31:42

Send us, send us proof of it. You get a cool sticker. That's all I'm saying. And I got a lot of them to give out. So start, start sending them in. She gave them out 

1  

01:31:51

To gave one to the lady at Hamilton. 

0  

01:31:54

I did. I gave one to someone last night. Anyways, we have a Patrion. As we discussed before, like our new friend, Ryan, you can also become part of the oh, in UC Patrion fam. And just go to patron and search for one nation under crime. And let's see, I think that's it for this week. Thanks for listening in. We'll see you here. Same time, different crime next week. And remember there isn't always Liberty and justice for all. Goodbye. E.