1812: Chicago's First Murder

You are listening to One Nation Under Crime, A Chronological True Crime Podcast. Each week we go through our nation's history and discuss one case for me here starting in 1800. I'm Kayla and I'm Leah and we're to episode 14 for 14, officially in the teens, not like just a team that's right in it. And we're in the year of 1812. So got a lot of events that happened this year. There's a war that happened a year. And I hear named for the year that there are a lot of events that happened in this year a lot. 

0  

00:00:41

So our sources for this week, nice little song, the Chicago Reader, the Chicago Tribune and Document Transcripts from the War of 1812, the war I just, yes. You know, mentioned. Correct. And as you can probably guess this took place in Chicago since most of my sources are from Chicago. That's because we are covering the first murder in Chicago. The first murder in Chicago, first murder in Chicago at dad is the first murder in Chicago. 

0  

00:01:24

It's the first murder in Chicago. This was right when Chicago actually became a city. Okay. So our events in 1812, like I said, we got a few of them. So let's get to them in January of 1812, the new England journal of medicine was first published in Boston, Baston by Dr. John Collins, Warren, January 10th, the steam ship its name was new Orleans. I was going to anyways, it confused me, the steam ship, new Orleans, which was the first on the Mississippi river, arrived in its namesake city and completed its maiden voyage. 

0  

00:02:12

February 2nd, Russia established a fur trading colony at Fort Ross in California, April 4th, president James Madison enacted a 90 day embargo trade with the UK, April 20th, vice president George Clinton died while still in office, April 30th. Louisiana is officially admitted as the 18th state may eight hail to the chief was published and made the presidential Anthem of the U S Hmm. 

0  

00:02:55

Almost started doing it that I, I refrained June 4th, the leftover portion of the Louisiana purchase. That was not a part of the newly formed Louisiana state was renamed the Missouri territory, ah, June 18th, the war of 1812 began between the U S and the British empire, ah, July 12th, Americans invaded Canada at Windsor, upper Canada. October. The capital of Pennsylvania was permanently moved from Lancaster to Harrisburg. 

0  

00:03:34

Alright, November 5th, James Madison defeats Dewitt Clinton in the presidential election. And Dewitt Clinton was the nephew of George Clinton who had died that year. So these are some undated events that happened in that year because they work. You know, I mean, they were really cool things in the year of 1812, the city bank of New York was founded. The general land office became an independent agency of the U S government, which was responsible for land in the public domain. The old Oscar pepper distillery was established along Glen's Creek and Woodford county, Kentucky. 

0  

00:04:23

This is the oldest Kentucky bourbon distillery, and is now better known as the Woodford reserve distillery. So they're the ones that make Woodford reserve, fascinating type of bourbon. Leah doesn't have this Sargassum, the Baptist training unions now called the Wayland Baptist. Theological seminary was founded by escaped and free slaves in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. The Princeton theological seminary was founded in New Jersey and it is the second oldest seminary in the United States. The oldest, just because I had to know what will the bowls? 

0  

00:05:05

The oldest is the Andover theological seminary located in Andover, Massachusetts. And it was founded in 1807. So just a few years before our births for this year, February 15th, Charles Lewis, Tiffany founder of Tiffany and company is born. He's a pretty store. Did you go into Tiffany when you were there? I walked past it. I didn't go in, it was late when I went so, so pretty Charles Tiffany is Aquarius. I dunno, October 22nd. 

0  

00:05:47

You'll appreciate this. James grizzly Adams mountain man Xtrordinair and bear trainer is born. He's a Libra, but I wonder if he made those bear shelters. It's not a shelter for bears. 

1  

00:06:09

<inaudible> family about that. There was much laughter 

0  

00:06:18

In my head for that, for that moment. It did not make sense. Why would you have a shelter for the bears? For some reason in my head, at that moment, I was like, 

1  

00:06:30

I mean <inaudible> And I gave you credit because I was like, and I looked at her and I went, what? And then you were like, not for the, for the pairs. It was very funny. 

0  

00:06:50

So we do have some deaths for this year that were notable, May 12th, Martha Ballard, midwife and diarist die. She was the one from our Parrington episode. Yes, Polly. She died that year. Polly. Yes. December 20th. SACA Julia interpreter and guide on Lewis and Clark expedition died. 

1  

00:07:17

And I know that it's fictional, but I love her in ninth, U museum. 

0  

00:07:22

Nice museums are really God's so good night at the museum and national treasure are those movies that I could just always watch my love. I need to watch national treasure. Good. There should be a third Nash. Okay. Let me get, let me get on my national treasure. Who was so far 

1  

00:07:43

In the doorkeeper tunnel first 

0  

00:07:47

Tunnel. Oh, he's so funny. There should have been a third one and I don't know why there's not a third one. I'm a little mad about it because such good movies. I was just, I love history so much. And anyways, why don't we have a historical chronological DRI grand podcast. Anyways, August 17th, 1792, Jean Lallene arrived in Chicago said the name again, gene Lallene. 

0  

00:08:27

Aye. Hold on. He arrived in Chicago after working his way as a trader through the frontier, June 17th of 18, 12, gene Lallene was murdered by a fur trader named John Kinsey at Fort Dearborn on Twitter. I specifically tweeted to our French and Canadian listeners how to say his name because some Google let me down because I like to put things in Google and it'll tell me how to pronounce it. And it said LA lime. 

0  

00:09:09

And I was like LA lime that doesn't and it's spelled two different ways. Some people spell it L a space lime, like it's literally spelled lime. And then other people put it together is like one name. But I did ask Twitter to make sure. And there's a podcast called the trail, went cold. And they were that, yes, they they're one of our Twitter friends. And they said that there was a very famous NHL goalie named Patrick Lalime who pronounced his last name? 

0  

00:09:49

LA lean. So they said it's, that's probably the correct pronunciation of it. So, but you know what I mean? I had to know. I don't like miss 

1  

00:09:59

You don't want to butcher someone's name. 

0  

00:10:00

Yeah. I hate to do that. And I, especially if I could figure it out. So I had to, I had to resort to our Canadian friends to figure out how to say that 

1  

00:10:10

My maiden name, there's more than one way to say my maiden name. Now there is. And you know, if you say it one way, that's the way it needs to be pronounced. And I will still correct you even. And it's not even my last name anymore. So you gotta say it the right way. 

0  

00:10:28

Yeah. I was going to say, I thought you had some documents. So into our case, welcome ladies and gentlemen, you are about to see a story of murder, greed, corruption, violence, exploitation, adultery, and treachery. All of those things. We all hold near and dear to our hearts. If you are someone who is very involved in thespian pursuits, then you will recognize that as the opening line from The Musical Chicago, Ooh, unfortunately we are not talking about that. 

0  

00:11:12

Chicago. In this episode, we are talking about, as some would say, the windy city, mud city, Chi-Town the second city, the city by the lake, the heart of America, the great American city or the 3, 1 2, which was the city's original area code before 7, 7, 3 and 8 7 2. By now you should know it's the city of Chicago, Illinois. Weirdly enough. The official name of the city is city of Chicago, not Chicago, the city of Chicago. Very odd. Interesting. 

1  

00:11:51

Have you been to Chicago before 

0  

00:11:53

Flown into it, but that's about it. I've been there. I've always wanted to go. The first known non-indigenous permanent settler in Chicago was gene <inaudible> point do Savel. That's a mouthful. It's very long name. And that was in the 1780s. He is considered the founder of Chicago and in 1803, the U S army built Fort Dearborn, which is where part of our story takes place. The Fort was destroyed in 18, 12, the same year of our case by British and native allies. But rebuilt later, the city of Chicago was officially incorporated. 

0  

00:12:36

Let's see, did not put that there. Anyways, the city of Chicago was the world's fastest growing city for several decades. Chicago's first railway. I think it's Glenna or Galena and Chicago union it's Galena. I remember looking it up. Chicago's first railway Glenna in Chicago, union railroad and the Illinois Michigan canal opened in 1848. This canal allowed vessels on the great lakes to connect to the Mississippi river in 1871. 

0  

00:13:17

The great Chicago fire destroyed an area four miles long in one mile wide. That was the one that was born. Yes, a whole lot of the city remained untouched like the railroads and the stockyards. A major reason for the massive spread of fire was due to wooden structures, common and buildings in the city. The buildings after were built of steel and stone. And this is actually the Chicago fire is what set the standard for construction worldwide. Huh? Chicago went on to construct the world's first skyscraper in 1885 using steel skeleton construction. 

0  

00:14:03

This building was the home insurance building. And they also said that the walls were 16 inches thick roof. When you think about it. So it was originally 10 stories, and then later two more floors were added, unfortunately, because we can't just leave anything alone. No, the building was demolished in 1931. There is so much history in Chicago. It could be an episode on its own, like a lot of things that we discussed. But for this time period, I think we're just going to stop there and finish with famous people. 

0  

00:14:44

You might not have known were from Chicago, Oprah. She's not from Chicago. We have Robin Williams, Harrison Ford, Walt Disney. I didn't realize that Harrison Ford was from Chicago. Dwayne Wade, Michelle Obama, John and Jim Belushi, Hillary Clinton, Maria Shriver, John Malaney, Hugh Hefner, Shel Silverstein, Chris Hanson. All of you should know who Chris Hanson is. Please tell me, you know who Chris Hanson is to catch a predator. Do you not? Do you never watch the show to catch a predator where they would like he would come into the room and it would be like in a kitchen. 

0  

00:15:28

And these grown men had been talking to what they thought were children online, Kayla. And he went to a watch. But what's so funny about it is so these guys would show up at this, you know, where they're supposed to meet these children, but they're actually like actors that just look really young. They're all adults. And then Chris Hanson would just pop out in the background after like, you know, they actually incriminate themselves. Chris Hanson would just pop out of the background and just be like, hello, dear. 

0  

00:16:15

And the show was called to catch a predator. And it was Chris and it was one of the best shows. So anyways, Chris, Hanson's from Chicago and of course, Leah doesn't know that is too busy. Watching Disney or friends. Reruns Lee is going to know who this is. Mandy Patinkin. Yes. Indego Montoya. That's who he was. He killed my father. And the rest of you may know him as SSA Jason Gideon from criminal minds. Oh, and Joe Montegna is also from there who my follow lovers of criminal minds will know as SSA David Rossi, both great men. 

0  

00:17:06

That's only scratching the surface of famous people from Chicago and yes, for the true crime buffs. I am malware that John Wayne Gacy, HH Holmes and Richard speck also lived there at some point. Also would like to point out that both Harrison Ford and Robin Williams are cancers much like myself. I'm a Harrison Ford fan and a Robin Williams fan. Also, by the way, John Malaney, Lee doesn't even know who John Delaney has got. Anyways, she's going to have to figure out who he is because John Malaney is hilarious. John Malaney and Chris Hanson are Virgos likelier. 

0  

00:17:47

And since I, I literally put this in my notes and since I'll be surprised if Leah knows any of those other famous Virgos, not from Chicago or even the U S are Kiana Reeves. I know him. He is actually from Beirut Lebanon and Sean Connery. Do you know where he's from? He's from 

1  

00:18:10

Scotland as my fountain 

0  

00:18:14

Fountain bridge Edinburgh is where he's from. So there you go onto our story. I know we watched the hunt for red October last night. It was the first time I'd seen it. It was really good. 

1  

00:18:31

Glad that your man is making all the good, good classes. 

0  

00:18:40

We had the first conversation last night, where my boyfriend genuinely had a visceral reaction and looked at me and just, he just goes guys, not in a bad way. We're a very joking couple. He just goes, that makes me want to hit you. And I wouldn't hit her, 

1  

00:19:02

But he has. He knows that I would be after him. And so would my husband 

0  

00:19:06

Is I, I don't even have words for what 

1  

00:19:12

Happened. 

0  

00:19:14

I have not seen any of the Indiana Jones movies. 

1  

00:19:28

Oh, your prom people have not seen Indiana. You don't know whose short round is. 

0  

00:19:34

Oh, oh, I figured this out is because 

1  

00:19:40

Any, any up in age, 

0  

00:19:42

None of them, none of them, none of them. And the only reason that we figured this out was because we were watching the hunt for red October and there was an actor. And I was like, I know him, where have I seen him? And I looked it up. It was Sam Neill, Jurassic park, but we're scrolling through. And I was like, what other movies has Sean Connery been in? And I was scrolling crusade. I was scrolling through. And I was like, oh, he is an Indiana Jones. And my boyfriend was like, yeah, you didn't know that he was in Indiana Jones. And I went, I've never seen Indiana Jones. 

0  

00:20:24

And that was when he, he physically jumped backwards or sitting on the couch. And he just goes, that makes me want to hit you 

1  

00:20:36

To say nothing to me about all of your little crumb show thing. 

0  

00:20:40

I've put in so many hours of crime. It's not even funny. This is what I have to explain his 

1  

00:20:45

Writing crimes though. He like, these are big crimes. He's a Nazi. I know, 

0  

00:20:51

I know the general concept and I know the storylines of the movies, national 

1  

00:20:55

Treasure 

0  

00:20:57

And things. And I looked at him and I went, I had not seen top gun until we started dating. I 

1  

00:21:06

Think that I've 

0  

00:21:07

Seen 

1  

00:21:09

Again, no top gun, like, no <inaudible>. I mean, playing with the boys, the volleyball scene, come on, Val Kilmer and Tom cruise at their peak physical state. I will say this P 

0  

00:21:32

We watched a movie with Val Kilmer in it the other day. And it was, it was rough. Val Kilmer days, deja VU, Denzel Washington was in it and gal Kilmer's in it. 

1  

00:21:43

That's the one that you couldn't remember what a ferry was called. It's like a boat and big <inaudible> 

0  

00:21:55

And it 

1  

00:21:55

Can't, it takes the cars across a ferry. Yeah. Yeah. 

0  

00:22:02

That was funny. I will say though, when, cause I knew that Maverick was going to be coming out and as I'm watching top gun, I've never, no, I had never seen it before and I'm sitting there and as the movie is going on, I look over at my boyfriend and I said, his son is going to be the main focus of the new movie. That's going to come out. And I said, and he's going to end up being a teacher. And I said, and I guarantee you that's the storyline that they're going to go with. And he was like, you don't know that I say Google it. And he goes, how did you know that? 

0  

00:22:44

I said, it's just a very obvious storyline that 

1  

00:22:47

They would go for. I mean, it makes sense. 

0  

00:22:50

So yes. Anyways, 

1  

00:22:53

I'm ashamed of you, but I still love you. My love is not dependent on what movies or shows you have a boyfriend 

0  

00:22:59

Has a list. He has a list on his phone that he puts, 

1  

00:23:02

He put Indiana Jones like the top. 

0  

00:23:04

Yes, he, he did. He made sure 

1  

00:23:06

To put it, I'm going to need you to report back. I need to need you to tell me when you're watching them. And now I need you to report back to me and let me know which one you liked the best I am flabbergasted. Yes. I'm so sad. 

0  

00:23:21

Julia Roberts or Sandra Bullock movie though. That's what my mom liked to watch. And so I was, you know, primarily raised by my mom. And so my mom never watched any of those movies, but it makes me sad that 

1  

00:23:35

She didn't because, so, 

0  

00:23:36

I mean, I'm sure she saw them at one time, but that's just not her like a thing. So I don't, that's what I try to tell my boyfriend is like, yeah, like I, you know, for those of you who don't know, my, my dad died when I was younger. And so like for the longest time, you know, even before that my parents weren't together. And so, you know, like, I mean, my dad showed me the two movies. I remember him showing me specifically Jurassic park. I was way too young to watch it. When I watched it and outbreak with the monkeys. Those are the two movies my dad thought to show me, oh, N a kiss, the girls, oh gosh, probably that's where my love of true crime comes from either way. 

0  

00:24:25

All right. Back to track. Both of the men in our story this week are from Canada. So it's a little important to kind of go through Canada at the time. Quick history, Canada was still kind of like the Louisiana territory and that there was an upper Canada and a lower Canada. There weren't firm boundaries for the now 13 provinces. And from 1841 to 1867, it went by either the province of Canada, the United province of Canada or the United Canada's OMA. 

0  

00:25:08

That's confusing. I know in 1867, the areas upper Canada, lower Canada, Nova Scotia and new Brunswick were all United into a single dominion. Under the British empire called Canada. July 1st was considered dominion day. As the area was then named the dominion of Canada. It wasn't until 1982, when the Canada act was passed, this brought the constitution of Canada fully under Canadian control and referred to it only as Canada. 

0  

00:25:49

That is when dominion day was changed to Canada day, I was alive. That was not, I was not stopped a few more years. Yeah. I just thought I'd throw that out. So just to say that, because some of the people in this it'll say like, where, you know, they were from lower Canada and I don't want it to sound like, I don't know, Cain, like that's what it was called at this time. Right? So there you go. Gene Molleen arrived in the Chicago area on August 17th, 1792 <inaudible> was a good trader and had been trading his way through the Western frontier and Detroit. 

0  

00:26:30

He was from Quebec lower Canada. Alim was an agent for William Burnett of Canada at the time in 1800, Lallene bought a homestead for William Burnett from Jean <inaudible> point de Sabal, who we discussed earlier as the father of Chicago, the land was bought for 16 leavers. I had to look up how to say that lease is leave this. You said it with your whole body. Well, because it's like, it's like, he is one of those. Like when you say he says panic and I was trying to really try and like figure out how to say, I really didn't want to mess that one up either. 

0  

00:27:15

Once you convert that to pounds and dollars today, it would be 437 save a hundred dollars on it. It would be 437,000 pound Sterling and $601,000. The bill of sale for the land was dated for May 1st, 1800, but was filed in Detroit on September 18th, same year. This is where the antagonist, maybe depending on how you see it, of our story comes in William Burnett, who was Eileen's boss had a business partner named John Kinsey Kinsey came to settle in Chicago and he bought the homestead for himself. 

0  

00:28:06

So he bought the homestead from Jean-Baptiste de Savel. He bought the homestead that, you know, William Burnett had purchased Kinsey was a fur trader from Quebec. And first traded in Detroit in the Northwest territory of the United States. Kinsey was known to have developed trade at the Kiki Ana. Yup. Yup. That's how you say it, which was right in the middle of where the Miami tribe or nation was located in 1785 Kinsey assisted in quote, rescuing two American citizens who had been kidnapped 10 years earlier from Virginia. 

0  

00:28:50

And they were quote, adopted into the tribe. Not sure how you're adopted into the tribe when you were kidnapped, but okay. The citizens were sisters and their names were Margaret and Elizabeth McKinsey. Margaret went on to marry John Kenzie. So essentially she just took the emcee off of her last name. The couple had three children together, and eventually she left Kinsey, took her children and went back to Virginia. However, as adults, all three children ended up moving to Chicago in 1789, Kinsey lost his business and had to move further away from the Western frontier at this time. 

0  

00:29:35

The us wasn't on great terms with Canada as far as for trading concerned. So Kenzie was just trying to kinda like follow the money, follow the money, see where it goes. Kinsey did marry again, nine years later to Eleanor MacKillop. When the family finally made it to Chicago, they had one son named John and then had three more children once they settled still too many. The other children were Ellen Marian, Maria, Indiana, and Robert Allen. Yes. Her middle name was Indiana Indiana. 

0  

00:30:17

And we just talked about Indiana Jones. How funny didn't plan on that? The same year Kinsey bought the homestead, the governor of the Indiana territory, William Henry Harrison appointed Kenzie as the justice of the peace. William Henry Harrison might sound familiar to some people. He was the ninth president of the United States. And like I said, he had appointed Kenzie as a justice of the peace. Very few places still have a justice of the peace, but it is essentially an elected or an appointed person to keep the peace. And from what I understood, they were kind of like the justice and the judge. 

0  

00:30:57

So Andy was the justice of the peace and may Berry, however, depending on the area or country that you are in the definition of what a justice of the peace can actually vary wildly, like it's, it's very different in a lot of different places, but in America at that time, that's what a justice to the piece was for the main location of this case is at Fort Dearborn. This was a us Fort built in 1803 near the Chicago river. Captain John Whistler was the one who directed the construction. And it was named after Henry Dearborn, who was the us secretary of war. At the time, the original Fort Dearborn was destroyed. 

0  

00:31:41

Not completely destroyed. I have issues with that. Everything I said said it was completely, it is surrounding complete, completely destroyed is not a thing, guys. We're just going to go ahead and make sure that everybody is well aware and it will now forever drive you crazy when you hear other people say it because completely destroyed is not a thing. If it is destroyed than it is gone, it cannot be. You were basically saying it was destroyed, destroyed that it's irritating. So it was destroyed in the battle of Fort Dearborn during the war of 1812 in August. 

0  

00:32:22

But it was rebuilt afterward. The battle that took down the Fort lasted a total of fifth, 18 minutes, and the native Americans won the battle and the Fort burned down 15 minutes. I know, I hate, like I hate like seem like we're going down rabbit holes in different trails, but the story isn't like completely together in cohesive. So I have to like piece things together to like make it all make sense before we get into a lot of stuff. But it's better for me to go ahead and explain some things at the top, because if you're like me, then you'll like, forget what happened. 

0  

00:33:06

But crime in history is what you're here for us to deal with it. There are two important what you're saying pretty much. Cause this is another thing that we do have to go into. There are two important positions at Dearborn that we have to go over. There is the factor and the subtler, the factor is a military officer who is in charge of basically not screwing over the native Americans in the area. So his job then there is the subtler who is not a part of the military. It is a civilian who has political ties and sold goods and provisions to the soldiers. 

0  

00:33:48

If we have any military listeners, which I think we do have some, this is what today's commissary or exchange would be, but one with no rules and the seller can sell goods at whatever costs. They please, at this time, each trading post had what was called eight factory. This was where European goods were sold and they were sold at cost. So that's where the factor was. And they sold all of those goods at cost because they were goods coming in from Europe that then some native Americans were purchasing. So the factor was there to make sure things were being charged fairly at his, at the factory. 

0  

00:34:35

So that was a case where like profit was not a concern because that was not his job. Right. They were more concerned with keeping certain for pelts away from the British and boost the native Americans confidence in the us. So they, they did a lot of for trading at the factor with the factor as well. And they were just trying to make sure they didn't get into the hands of the British things between the U S and British empire. Still not great at this point. I don't know why weird. 

0  

00:35:15

We just threw all their tea in a Harbor, but it's fine. Be some salty tea, this whole concept of trying to like keep up, you know, good, look it failed. We mentioned John Jacob Astor in a previous episode, but this was a privately funded trader company and had way more capital than the entire factory system. And the goods were higher quality than what the factory system had. So that was problematic. Then on the other side, you had the subtler who ran the trading posts. 

0  

00:35:58

The seller had rights to sell whatever they wanted at whatever price they wanted. The only catch was the seller had to sell goods to those who appointed him at a discounted rate, which I guess if you're charging whatever you want to, it really doesn't matter. Right? Fort Dearborn had a mandatory location to shop and it was Cooper and whistlers this place was making so much money off of the soldiers. It's like sickening because that was where the soldiers had to shop. It was mandatory. 

0  

00:36:39

They charged roughly 50% more for sugar, alcohol, tobacco, and anything else that they needed. Especially bullets Cooper of Cooper and Whistler was friends with the doctor at Dearborn and Whistler was the son of the commander of the Fort. Then in January of 1812, it changed hands and it became Messer's Mooney, warmed hill pamphlet and prongs, just kidding, but it did become Messer's Kinsey and Forsyth immediately. 

0  

00:37:21

There was speculation as to how Kinsey actually landed that gig, but much like everything in life Kinsey had an Inn stick with me Whistler. One of the previous settlers was related to a Lieutenant on base. This Lieutenant ended up being replaced with Kinsey's son-in-law. There was also heavy speculation that Kinsey had some kind of dirt on the Fort commander who was captain Nathan held at the time. And he will be in our story as well after all Kinsey was the justice of the peace in the area. So he kind of knew the dirt on a lot of people. 

0  

00:38:04

It was assumed when Kinsey became one of the men to take over since he was the justice of the peace that maybe the settlor would actually have fair pricing. I mean, right. And in the beginning he did. But if they thought that Cooper and Whistler's prices were high, they had no idea what Kinsey was about, how disappointing the factor on the base was Matthew Irwin Irwin started to see a conspiracy going on between Kenzie and captain held. And he wrote a letter to the war department in January of 18, 12 Irwin asserted that the two men were into some shady dealings and his specific problem in a March 10th letter was that quote lately, ascertained it to be an absolute fact that Messrs Kenzie and foresight offered a gentleman, offered a gentleman $400 a year to get them appointed at Washington. 

0  

00:39:10

The settlers for this place, Erwin kept chronicling all of the events. He kept seeing it Dearborn and sending letters to the war department. Erwin soon found two others on the base that agreed with his concerns. They were surgeon. They were the surgeon, Dr. Isaac van Voris and the interpreter for the Fort gene walling in April of 18 12, 2 settlers in Bridgeport were murdered by members of the Winnebago tribe. In quotes I put here is where Leah is probably going to ask about Winnebago the RV. 

0  

00:39:52

I didn't press pressed my lips together. I had the thought, but a Winnebago industries, because I did look this up. Cause I knew you would probably ask when Winnebago industries is named after the county that it's located in, but the county is named after the tribe. So there you go. Thank you. You're welcome. Look on my, I know it literally says in quotes here is where Leah is probably going to ask about Winnebago the RV. I mean, I'm curious with these, get their names. Well, it's unclear why the two settlers were killed, but either way, Kenzie and helm immediately jumped in wanting to retaliate. 

0  

00:40:36

But, but Helen, not only did they want to retaliate against the Winnebago tribe, they also wanted to attack the Chippewa and the Ottawa tribes who at this point had been nothing but kind to the people at Fort Dearborn, our friend Irwin wrote another letter dated April 16th and said, quote, propositions were openly made to murder them as well as some French persons with Indian wives. This is, this is a direct quote. So who have ever, since they have been here manifested peaceable dispositions, the principal persons who advise and assisted upon such measures being carried into effect where the subtler for this Garrison and his son-in-law Lieutenant helm. 

0  

00:41:33

So one of those quote, French persons within the end wives might've been lonely because he did have a wife who was native because he was the interpreter. Yep. So there are a lot of names I know, like flying around in the story. So I'm going to go ahead and like kinda say, who was with who like sharks versus jets. We're going to go into like who you so much for doing that to who they are. So Kinsey and helm are the settlers who overpriced everything and wanting to incite a war with the native Americans. 

0  

00:42:17

They also wrote open another soldier at this point, named George Ronan to help kind of keep the outrage over the murders kind of in the public eye. You know, like, just make sure you just kinda like, keep that, keep that fire going. Just add a little gasoline, make sure people haven't forgotten about it. So Erwin Laulima and Dr. Van Voris are the ones against pretty much everything that the settlers were doing, especially trying to incite a war. They're not being fair. Right? Our newest character, I guess Ronan outright told Alim that he was going to shoot him and then helm very neighborly. 

0  

00:43:05

Then helm said he was going to take the scalp of Irwin who was in the nature scalp. Do what kind of nature? Scalp kind of every now and then I suppose. So helm was detained about a month later in may for plotting to murder six native Americans who had arrived at the Fort peacefully, peacefully, but he was released. She likes to know why he was released. Why was he released? He apologized. Oh, good on him. Did he get a gold star too? Might have bled. 

0  

00:43:46

Did he have to spend a little bit of time in the corner? They made him sit in the corner and think about what he did for a few days. And then he could go, so why are Kinsey and Helms? So set on starting a war like who's to benefit, right? Why would you want to do that? If there was a war, then someone who was a gun runner is going to cash in majorly with the increased demand. Also, if you were illegally trading goods, you have the factor Irwin to worry about because he's the one that's supposed to be dealing with all the good trading. 

0  

00:44:31

Because remember as the factor, you were the one who maintains fair prices for trading with the local tribes. If you were illegally trading goods, chances are prices are a bit higher. So a war with those, what caused major tension and ruin any relationship between the factor and the tribes, putting the factor out of business, right? Turns out Kinsey was a gun runner for the British. Imagine that, and he was illegally trading with the tribes shocking, right? 

0  

00:45:11

Shocking. Dr. Van Voris also had written in a letter to the war department and in the letter he said, quote, I really honorable sir, conceive my present situation, extremely unpleasant, if not truly hazardous. And where I convinced that no exchange neither in conduct, nor in persons would take place at the post. I should prefer the regions of Zemel to Fort Dearborn. I have the honor to be with much respect and esteem, sir, your obedient servant. 

0  

00:45:52

I knew you would love that. That makes me happy. I know I saw that when, cause like I said, some of these I got from like direct transcripts from letters and so yeah, he said, I have the honor to be with much respect in a scene, sir, your obedient servant from this communication from the doctor, we can see that things were not going well at Dearborn. He's like, get me outta here. Right. Well, and so I tried to look up because he said, I should prefer the regions of Zempel to Fort Dearborn. And I tried to know where that was. I don't know. And I, I tried to look it up several different ways. So I don't know if that was like a slang term for something around that time, but I could not find anything on where that was. 

0  

00:46:40

But based on context clues, I think that maybe it was just somewhere that was not desirable Rodrigo. And he's basically saying, I'd rather go here than be here. So yeah. Things weren't going well. And on June 17th of 18, 12 around 6:00 PM, they got worse. Helm went on a rant about Irwin to Dr. Van bores and lollies. And supposedly he said, quote, he would give a very handsome treat if the factory would be done away. 

0  

00:47:21

Kinsey stepped in and unsurprisingly took his son-in-law side, immediately being friend of Erwin Lalime defended his friend Irwin 

1  

00:47:34

As any good friend and sin of GABA 

0  

00:47:37

Do. And there is a lot of speculation on what actually happened after this, 

1  

00:47:43

That the end result was 

0  

00:47:48

There's no Trigger Warning for this part for, for this episode, by the way. I mean, we're going to talk about how he was murdered, but it's not, I mean, it's not anything, it's not like our last episode. It was not like the last episode. So like I said, there's a lot of speculation on what actually happened after this in, by the way, 

1  

00:48:10

When I wake up from having a nightmare from our last episode, I'm calling you. 

0  

00:48:16

Okay. Okay. Continue. I'm a heavy sleeper. So good luck. I'm sorry. Laulima had a pistol and Kinsey, a butcher knife. Some say they heard a gun go off. However, what was immensely clear was that lollies had been stabbed Kinsey claims that lollies shot at him and he killed Alim. And self-defense other witnesses indicated that the murder was premeditated and Kinsey intended on killing Baline. 

0  

00:48:58

There were rumors that Laulima was an informant on all of the corruption going on at Dearborn and Kinsey just happened to be right at the center of all that corruption. He was in the eye of the hurricane. He was quiet. Yep. Yellow sky. Yep. And you wouldn't want your wrongdoings to get back to anyone? Nope. So Kenzie ran and hid for several hours until his son-in-law came for him. You would think since so many people saw the murder take place that Kenzie would be detained, but that didn't happen. 

0  

00:49:42

It would make sense. Erwin and Dr. Van bores both saw the murder take place and were threatened by Kinsey and helm as well. Kinsey shook hands with his son-in-law and left just left Fort Dearborn, even though Kenzie was gone and Laulima had been murdered, things were still not going well at Dearborn. That's crazy. Irwin noticed that a few men started regularly following him around and hanging around outside of the factory. When he was there being a smart man, Erwin decided to bunk with the doctor, they would at least have somebody, you know, to watch each other's back because the doctor was scared too, obviously to add fuel to the fire. 

0  

00:50:38

A letter came from the war department in response to one sent by Irwin months before the letter said that Kinsey's subtler had to be regulated and he couldn't overcharge anyone any longer. So it's kinda like snitches get stitches. And they figured out Erwin was the one that was writing these letters to the war department. By the way, I told my nephew that the other day he didn't get it at all. The let's see the same night. It was reported that the same night that they got the letter from the war department, it was reported that Kinsey had been spotted and held. 

0  

00:51:26

He was the commander that was over the whole base. He ordered Irwin to go with Ronan to catch him. Mm Ronan was the original one that said he was going to shoot Laulima and you're going to send Ronin with Irwin to go find Kenzie. I'm sorry. What, what in the setup is this, I mean crazy. I mean, so Erwin said, no, thanks. I'm a pass pass. 

0  

00:52:06

Yeah. It's going to be skimpy and no for me. Yeah. And this came with repercussions, held kicks Erwin out of the sleeping quarters, took away the soldier that Irwin had helping him at the factory told Irwin he had to replace the soldier in six days. Oh. And tore apart his vegetable garden and wrote a letter to the war department saying that Erwin was a bad guy and a terrible friend Kinsey had fled to Milwaukee, which was a native American Indian territory at the time. Berlin had to also find another interpreter for Fort Dearborn since theirs was just murdered in front of a lot of people. 

0  

00:52:55

So July 5th, Erwin left for Fort Mac and left for Fort Mackinac, Mackinac Mackinac. It's kind of fun to say and ran into the British just as he got there. He became a prisoner of war in a letter dated June 30th, Dr. Van wars said, quote, I need not trouble. You sir, with the minutiae of this affair, suffice it to say that it was a perfect assassination and can be proven to be such. I shall ever be ready when my person is secure to substantiate what I have stated, which is kind of weird. 

0  

00:53:39

Kinsey's gone and wasn't a threat to him anymore. And it seemed most of the anger was geared at Arwin. So why did the doctor need to be secure? Right. Well, there are probably more reasons than we know because Dr. Van bores was found dead on a beach two weeks later, once Erwin was released as a prisoner of war, he wrote to the war department. Again, this time he laid out everything regarding the murder and the reasons why he could not go back to Fort Dearborn, including the fact that somehow yeah, somehow Kinsey was influencing those lifts to quote, get rid of the witnesses one by one, right? 

0  

00:54:30

Erwin didn't want to end up like his friends, the war department wrote him back. And at this time Dearborn had actually, this was when dear Warren had been burned down in the battle. So do your warn wasn't there. And Erwin wouldn't need to go back at that time anyways, because it wasn't there thankfully, but Erwin would still get his salary from the war department until he felt ready to come back to work and pass that I could not find anything else on Irwin. So in 1813, the British arrested Kinsey and Jean Bob teas, Chardonnay, fine fancy, last name Chardonnay all sacred white, by the way, also then living in Detroit and charged them with treason. 

0  

00:55:26

They were accused of having corresponded with the enemy while supplying gunpowder to chief, to come seas Indian forces who were fighting alongside the British Chardonnay escaped. But Kenzie was imprisoned on a ship for trans. He was headed to England when the ship was put in port in Nova Scotia. Cause there was a really bad storm and they had to port Kenzie escaped. He returned to Detroit by 1814. And although he had previously been like on the British side, he switched sides to the U S oh no. 

0  

00:56:11

Cause he was in trouble with the British. So exactly. Hey guys, he returned to Chicago. He returned to Chicago with his family in 1816, lived there right up until his death. 

1  

00:56:26

So he never got 

0  

00:56:26

In trouble. It gets better during the like kind of 1820s. Kinzie served as a justice of the peace for the newly created pike county, which was at the time extended from the Mississippi river to lake Michigan. He was the justice of the peace. He did 

1  

00:56:46

Not do a background check on 

0  

00:56:47

Him. Don't think that was the thing. Kinsey had a stroke on June 6th, 1828 and died just a few hours later. So what about Lallene? Well, Pauline was originally buried within sight of Kenzie's house. So Kinsey his family, every time they left their house, saw the grave site of the man that they're a patriarch of their family murdered. 

1  

00:57:23

They know that this was the grave site. Did they know the whole history of it? Oh dear. 

0  

00:57:32

Which kind of reminds me of when Aaron Burr's last wife intentionally found Alexander Hamilton. Jr. Do you know what I mean? Like twist that 

1  

00:57:43

Just a little 

0  

00:57:45

Tighter. Right? So he was originally buried there because the European settlement was kind of like just real thin in that area. And it said that the Kinsey family maintained the grave site. So that's how we know that they knew it was there after he died in 1828, John H Kinsey, which was the child of the Kinsey family had lollipops remains Exuma and reentered in the church yard of St. James Church by guilt going on to say it 

1  

00:58:28

Was this added 

0  

00:58:29

Skill. Yeah. 

1  

00:58:31

Or I mean, so this was after the, after his dad died. So kind of maybe respect as well, just, you know, 

0  

00:58:38

These are better, right? So I can respect that in 1891, a coffin was discovered at Wabash avenue in Illinois street near the rush street bridge, based on the research of Joseph Kirkland, who was just sort of surgical researcher, the bones inside were believed to be Laulima. The remains are now held by the Chicago history museum. And for a long time, I'll put a photo up on, on our Instagram for a long time. There was a kind of like a shadow built into a wall that Laulima spoons were displayed in. 

0  

00:59:28

What is it w understand that weird. So that is what happened. That's the first murder that took place in Chicago. And one thing that I found really interesting, I think it was the Chicago Reader that pointed it out was that the, they were talking about how, if you are Jewish, you can't go to places where there's like a dead body. Like it's a certain type of Jewish faith. You could, you can't go where there's been a dead body or like, you know, you're like not even go to her funeral unless you're directly related to them. 

0  

01:00:12

So because of this, there's a lot of places that some people who are of that, you know, sect can't go. One of those is the Chicago zoo because apparently there might be some graves underneath it. So they can't go there because it's not, it's, there's dead people under the ground. Like, you know what I mean? So they can't because of this, they can't go visit there and hold on. So I looked at backup on this article and yeah, it is apparently at one point, some bodies were reburied when they were found in a former cemetery, but this was in the 1870s and 1880s. 

0  

01:01:11

And the researcher who did it found that there was a 12,000 gap pull stops in corpse gaps. So 12,000 corpses were not accounted for. So it's said that they might be under the zoo. So what this article was saying is it was talking about which there is a point to this, a promise. It's very interesting because his Laulima, his body is in the Chicago history museum. 

0  

01:01:52

Right? If you are this particular like <inaudible> of the Jewish community, you can't come in contact with a dead body. And there's like a specific ceremony that cleanses you. If you come in contact with death and it has to be done by a specific person, and there's only nine of these certain people who have ever fit the requirements to be able to do that ceremony. Yeah. 

0  

01:02:31

I think it's called and I'm sorry if this is not right. Cohen M yeah, 

1  

01:02:38

I don't. 

0  

01:02:39

Yeah. Cohen M anyway. So if you, you know, we're in this area and you find that you're even in a building with a dead body, like you have to leave immediately. They can't go to funerals unless it's spouse, parents, or children, they can't walk under the shadow of a branch from a tree that overlaps a different tree that falls over a cemetery. That is why medically is. It says, like, that's why people who are in this particular sect choose careers in dentistry. 

0  

01:03:23

So they don't have to do the cadaver work in college because they can't touch dead bodies. So there is this entire guide for Chicago that tells people, I think his coat Cohen, M Conan, something like that. I don't know how to, how to say it. That is a guide that tells people where they can go because of there could be like, you can't go anywhere where there's a dead body. So if you don't know, then you can't go anywhere. And so for a while, they couldn't go to the Chicago history museum because Lawley's remains were in it. 

1  

01:04:02

That's interesting though. I mean, but then like about like in New York, the national history museum of natural history and things like that, that keeps you from governance 

0  

01:04:12

In many places. And so they ended up at some point they extend to animal 

1  

01:04:20

Bodies. 

0  

01:04:21

It, it just said dead. I'm not sure curious. I'm not sure my interests. Yeah. It was very interesting reading into it. But so when they were trying to make the guide, the person who made that guide called the history museum to ask if there were any dead bodies on the premise, there were bodies. That was some point that they had that went to other places. And the only one left was Lallene. And which I'm going to say is weird. It is very weird. Later on, they did a temporary exhibit in the Chicago history museum that was called Shalom Chicago. 

0  

01:05:05

And it was like for the Jewish history of the city. Well, think about it. They can't go in the building. So the museum took Laulima remains and moved them to a storage facility off site so that they could come to see this exhibit that they made for them. So, yeah, I found it really interesting. 

1  

01:05:31

I mean, I've been to a lot of places in Saint Laval, a lot of history, you know, I've been to castles in Scotland, which everybody needs today. I'm just saying, go, it's cool. Right. And I love the history, but I mean, I'm just saying, I love to see the, the artifacts. I love to see like the, the jewels, the crown jewels. I've seen those. I love to see the different dresses and you know, the different fashions at the time. I do not need to see at a king body in these fashions. 

0  

01:06:03

So do you want to see the wall picture? No, it's not bad. I mean, it 

1  

01:06:11

Doesn't for me, 

0  

01:06:13

But you need to S so for super long time, though, this is how his remains were shimmying. Okay. I'm going to show Leah the photo. Literally. It's like a picture. I don't know. I'll post it on. 

1  

01:06:29

Show me a picture of what he looked like. Don't show me his bones. Like, what does that tell me about it? He had bones. 

0  

01:06:35

It's scary. And I guess it's just because he's considered the, for like the first murder in Chicago. 

1  

01:06:41

Show me a picture of it. I mean, that, that does nothing for me that shows me he had bones. Like I'm not, I am not bones, you know, from the TV show, she should be able to get something for that. This tells me nothing. It's very weird. 

0  

01:06:56

That's that's the first murder in Chicago and a little bit of Jewish history that I probably butchered 

1  

01:07:03

Matt, that I do. You don't need to see a dead body, semi fashion, shimmy artifacts. I'll look at a chamber pot and say what an ornate pot to do your business in. Yeah, I'm good. 

0  

01:07:17

I'm a pass. So no, for me, 

1  

01:07:19

I mean, saying I love it, but I mean, I will say they took a lot of care and making something for such a gross business. Look pretty. I will say that 

0  

01:07:33

True still, 

1  

01:07:36

But I'd rather say that then some decay embody, 

0  

01:07:39

It's just the bones. That's 

1  

01:07:41

Fine. Do you think that glass coffins will ever take off remains to be seen? 

0  

01:07:50

Do you know where the term saved by the bell comes from? 

1  

01:07:53

Yes. Yes. Yes. Because people were buried alive and they D they put a string attached to a bell up above. So you could pull it and ring a bell. 

0  

01:08:04

You know, it's real creepy to think about the what. So that's where a graveyard shift comes from. That's where that term comes from because somebody had to be there to make sure. So take that. Imagine there's a storm. 

1  

01:08:23

You hear the bell, you get all the bells. Oh gosh. 

0  

01:08:27

Now 

1  

01:08:28

You're going to feel my nightmare. Now imagine that 

0  

01:08:31

You're in the coffin, ringing your bell 

1  

01:08:33

And you don't know there's a story. Stop it. Stop it. Now my not tonight. Why do I hang out with you? 

0  

01:08:43

I'm hilarious. 

1  

01:08:46

I'm going to go being in a coffin, trying to ring a bell to floating on a squirrel, down a river. That's what's going to happen. 

0  

01:08:55

Give me that dream owner. If they could make a Muff out of squirrels, 

1  

01:09:01

Maybe it was already really bloated, but 

0  

01:09:04

Either way. I mean, you never know. You could put your hands in the body and then the tail could just kind of like, hang out there. 

1  

01:09:13

That can be your strap. Yeah, that'd 

0  

01:09:15

Be good. Right? We have a website. You can find all information on us. There it is. One Nation Under Crime dot com. Super simple. Not 

1  

01:09:28

On us on podcast. 

0  

01:09:31

Yep. We are One Nation Under Crime on Facebook and Instagram and at ONUC pod on Twitter. If you love our podcast, follow us on your favorite pod catcher. And please rate the podcast. Five stars only, please. We've discussed this. If you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all. And if you leave us a five-star review and you leave a review with it, don't not just five stars. Like natural comment. We have stickers, stickers, stickers, and I, yes. If you will screenshot your review that you did and you send it to us and send me your address, I will mail you a free sticker. 

1  

01:10:16

Hey, are you going to put a picture of the sticker on yes. 

0  

01:10:20

Instagram? I think you should. Yes. I'm going to put this picture of the stickers. So they are new. They are fancy. They are dishwasher proof. They are really cool. So they are high quality and they look really good. So if you leave us a review, take a picture of it. I have to see that there's a comment and stuff there too. And then send it to me prefer if you do it on apple podcasts, just because that helps boost our ratings more on apple. And that's how a lot of podcasts get found, but do it on any podcatcher that you're on. We appreciate it either way. We have a Patrion. If you are into that, we've talked about maybe doing a page, a couple of Patrion episodes a month for history. 

0  

01:11:03

So, but we got to get subscribers to do that. So thanks for listening guys. We appreciate you sticking. Yes, we did. And Leah's about to fall asleep. 

1  

01:11:17

So maybe I am I'm old. Y'all 

0  

01:11:21

So see, she can call herself a little bit. 

1  

01:11:27

I will say now this is the lightest. I think this is the lightest that we've recorded. No, no, no, no, no. It's not. This is next to latest. And it's a week night and my husband 

0  

01:11:39

Is 

1  

01:11:39

What I call it. It's a school night and my husband, my husband and I have a routine, you know, we've been married for 20 years and we have a routine. We watch the Andy Griffith show in bed before we go, like, you know, turn off the lights. And well, we were recording this piece, sends me a text and says, Andy is on. That means it's bedtime. So the lights are going to be out and I get home. See the things I do from a fans. Sure. 

0  

01:12:14

True. Thanks for we're here for you guys. So yeah, we will see you here next week. Same time, different crime. And remember that there isn't always Liberty and justice for all, especially in this case. We'll see you guys next week. Goodbye. Hi.